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Thread: 9's and 2's

  1. #11
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Let's just be 11's.

  2. #12
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I posted this in another thread two days ago. What timing.

    Misidentifying Twos and Nines

    There are a number of similarities between these types. Both are interpersonal, both tend to put others' needs before their own, both believe in service, both like to keep things positive, and so forth. Nonetheless, the differences between them are significant.

    It is usually average Nines who mistakenly think that they are Twos; it is rare for average Twos to make the reverse misidentification. Some average Nines (particularly women) would like to be Twos because they believe that Two is the loving type, and since these Nines also see themselves as loving, they feel that they must therefore be Twos. But of course, the capacity to love is not restricted to Twos, and other types (including Nines) are equally capable of loving others. As with other general traits that are common to all the types (such as aggression and anxiety), love is expressed differently from type to type and must be distinguished.

    In fact, the way Twos and Nines love others is quite different. Nines are unselfconscious, seldom focusing on themselves. They are self-effacing and accommodating, quite content to support others emotionally without looking for a great deal of attention or appreciation in return. Of course, while Nines want to feel that their love is returned, they are patient about it and can be satisfied with fewer responses than Twos. (Some of this is because Nines secretly do not want others to bother them or to affect them too strongly–they attempt to stay in connection with others while withdrawing within themselves to feel safe and independent.) Average Nines tend to idealize others and fall in love with a romantic, idealized version of the person rather than the person as he or she actually is. Average Twos, on the other hand, have an acute sense of other people and their hurts, needs, and frailties. Twos may focus on these qualities as a way of getting closer to others and as a way to be needed.

    Unlike average Nines, average Twos have a very sharp sense of their own identities. Although highly empathetic, they are not particularly self-effacing or accommodating. Rather than being unselfconscious, they are highly aware of their feelings and virtues and are much less hesitant to talk about them.

    At their best, healthy Twos can be as unselfish and humble as healthy Nines, but by the average Levels, there is quite a marked difference: Twos need to be needed, they want to be important in the lives of others, and they want people to come to them for approval, guidance, and advice. Average Twos almost "go after" people, and are always in danger of subtly encouraging people to become dependent on them. They tend to do things for people so that others will reinforce their sense of themselves as all-good and loving. By contrast to average Nines (who become silent, uncommunicative, and show few reactions when they get into conflicts with others), average Twos have no hesitation about telling people how selfish they are or informing them in no uncertain terms how much others are indebted to them. In short, as they become unhealthier, the egos of Twos inflate and become more self-important and aggressive, whereas the egos of Nines become more self-effacing, withdrawn, and diffused.

    Healthy Nines offer safe space to others. They are easy-going and accepting, so that others feel safe with them. There is almost no tendency in Nines to manipulate others or to make them feel guilty for not responding as they would like. (Healthy Nines are more patient and humble–traits Twos could learn from them.) By contrast, healthy Twos are willing to get down to the nitty-gritty and help out in difficult situations. They have an energy and staying power that average Nines tend to lack. Moreover, the help that healthy Twos give has a direct, personal focus: it is a response to you and your needs. In general, Twos will walk that extra mile with others, whereas, while Nines sincerely wish others well, they generally offer more comfort and reassurance than practical help. (The particularity of the love of healthy Twos is something that Nines could learn.) The similarities and differences between these two types may be seen by contrasting Eleanor Roosevelt and Lillian Carter (Twos) with Lady Bird Johnson and Betty Ford (Nines).

    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    I don't see why you can't feel both of those things. It certainly happens in real people. The trouble is type descriptions can't overlap like that, or else they'd cease to be unique. And I think that was the whole point (the uniqueness of each type) when it's creators came up with typology. You can't describe 5 different types as unique types that almost sound just alike. There would be no theory to buy. I think in real people these typological ideas are on a sliding scale and quite overlapping, but the descriptions are separating. So.. this doesn't always help you pin point your type. I think doing so would require some time and self-awareness and honesty, where you observe your own patterns and natural responses. It might take time. And you'd better hope and pray that you're not a dynamic person who might change or grow.

    Anyways, if I'm going to throw a type out, I'll say you're a 9.

    PS - I'm struggling with deciding between these two types for myself as well.
    If you have a viable personality type system, then it must be true to say that someone is one of the types, and it must be false to say they are more than one of the types. If you fail to meet this criteria, you've failed to create a viable typology system at all.

    Now it seems what you're saying is that you think it can be true for a person to be more than one Enneagram type?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  3. #13
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    If you have a viable personality type system, then it must be true to say that someone is one of the types, and it must be false to say they are more than one of the types. If you fail to meet this criteria, you've failed to create a viable typology system at all.

    Now it seems what you're saying is that you think it can be true for a person to be more than one Enneagram type?
    I wouldn't say it's not a viable system since plenty of people feel like they fit perfectly into one type. I think I have parts of both 2 and 9, yes (and apparently I'm not alone in my thinking), but I guess if I'm forced to pick one type, I'd pick type 2.

  4. #14
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    I wouldn't say it's not a viable system since plenty of people feel like they fit perfectly into one type. I think I have parts of both 2 and 9, yes (and apparently I'm not alone in my thinking), but I guess if I'm forced to pick one type, I'd pick type 2.
    You have to understand that the types are not amalgamated from a list of character traits - they emerge from all-encompassing central fixations, which can be summed up very distinctly from each other. So to say that a person can have "parts" of several types is to miss the point.

    It's something that people do on this forum all the time - your type isn't defined by surface traits, they are only identified to help you recognise your central fixation. It's why typing other people (especially celebrities) is such a fruitless enterprise - they have to be the ones to decide, it's not the other way around.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Thunderbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    You have to understand that the types are not amalgamated from a list of character traits - they emerge from all-encompassing central fixations, which can be summed up very distinctly from each other. So to say that a person can have "parts" of several types is to miss the point.

    It's something that people do on this forum all the time - your type isn't defined by surface traits, they are only identified to help you recognise your central fixation - that's what defines your type.
    Even so, I get what Giggly is saying. I feel like I relate to the core motivations and weaknesses from various types. I resonate strongly with 2's, 3's, 4's, 6's, and 9's, and I even feel like 7's and 5's sometimes.
    We cast away priceless time in dreams, born of imagination, fed upon illusion, and put to death by reality. - Judy Garland

  6. #16
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbringer View Post
    Even so, I get what Giggly is saying. I feel like I relate to the core motivations and weaknesses from various types. I resonate strongly with 2's, 3's, 4's, 6's, and 9's, and I even feel like 7's and 5's sometimes.
    It's more than motivation and weakness - its also a case of where that fixation and energy emerges from (I.e. the triads). I can relate to a number of types in the way you regarded as well, but what I know for sure is that my mind is what defines my fixation, as opposed to my emotions/ self-image, or my physical presence and gut intuition.

    I'm not incapable of occupying my physical presence or emotions - but I know for damn sure what my default state is, or at least what I can easily fall back onto if I let myself. That's what a fixation is.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    @Magic Poriferan, thank you for tht post! That definitely helped me to sort things out. After reading that I'd have to settle that I'm an 9 as I'm not nearly assertive enough like a 2.

    Thanks a bunch!
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
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  8. #18
    Senior Member Thunderbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    It's more than motivation and weakness - its also a case of where that fixation and energy emerges from (I.e. the triads). I can relate to a number of types in the way you regarded as well, but what I know for sure is that my mind is what defines my fixation, as opposed to my emotions/ self-image, or my physical presence and gut intuition.

    I'm not incapable of occupying my physical presence or emotions - but I know for damn sure what my default state is, or at least what I can easily fall back onto if I let myself. That's what a fixation is.
    It still doesn't work for me. I fall to both the emotion and mind triads for different situations.
    We cast away priceless time in dreams, born of imagination, fed upon illusion, and put to death by reality. - Judy Garland

  9. #19
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbringer View Post
    It still doesn't work for me. I fall to both the emotion and mind triads for different situations.
    Yeah I feel fixated in both my emotions/ self-image and my physical presence so I don't know what that makes me.

    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    @Magic Poriferan, thank you for tht post! That definitely helped me to sort things out. After reading that I'd have to settle that I'm an 9 as I'm not nearly assertive enough like a 2.
    Are 9's the most passive type there is? Because I didn't have the impression that 2's are the most assertive type either.


    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    If you believe in tri-type, you can be both a 2 and a 9. One is the primary type and the other could be 2nd or 3rd. You have one from each triad and the three are in order.

    Example - I thought I was an 8 but there were parts of 3 and 6 that fit as well. Turns out I'm actually 638. It means in terms of reaction - first mind (6), then heart (3), then body/action (8).
    When I looked up the triads, I didn't see any that included both 9 and 2 but i did see it mentioned that there are unhealthy triads. lol @how complex this type stuff starts to getting in order to explain all of our varied nuances. There's something strange about that to me.

  10. #20
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    When I looked up the triads, I didn't see any that included both 9 and 2 but i did see it mentioned that there are unhealthy triads. lol @how complex this type stuff starts to getting in order to explain all of our varied nuances. There's something strange about that to me.
    This might help. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritype

    So, you could be a 926 for example or a 259. You have one type from each of the centers (gut, mind, heart) placed in some sort of order. Any combination is legitimate as long as you only have one from each center (e.g you couldn't be a 569 because that would be two from mind and one from gut).

    I don't remember any of the tritypes as being considered unhealthy. They were just different.

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