Lost Childhood Messages

[PeaceBaby]

Even trying to be as excellent a parent as possible doesn't ensure you don't miss a thing here or there.

I have a personal example - one thing we decided our kids would not have to do was struggle with their post-secondary education. When they were born we started saving and each has scholarships to cover the expenses as a result. One of the savings programs we enrolled in had this certificate you could frame and hang on your kids bedroom wall.

It looked like a real diploma. It said basically, "You have savings to be able to go to any school, so dream, dream BIG!"

Incentivizing to my daughter.

Demotivating to my son. My son told me when he was about 18 that every time he saw it hanging on the wall, it was like these expectations hanging over his head, that he had to be successful and do well in school, that he had to live up to this goal that he didn't know if he wanted. That he would be letting us down if he didn't go.

And as attuned as I am to emotions and how my kids are feeling, his response floored me, I never imagined it could make him feel like that.

So, I really don't buy the whole, "You had to have a crappy parent to identify with the enneagram" thing. The evolution of a child's development, their interaction with siblings and peers, with either parent and even step-parents, other significant adult roles, all of that ties into the enneagram. Talking about "parenting" is a handy shorthand - the birth parents are of course, a huge component, but there's more nuance there, and I'm not uncomfortable with that.

We all developed strategies to have our needs met.

 

[mujigay]

Type One: It's not okay to make mistakes.
Type Two: It's not okay to have your own needs.
Type Three: It's not okay to have your own feelings and identity.
Type Four: It's not okay to be too functional or too happy.
Type Five: It's not okay to be comfortable in the world.
Type Six: It's not okay to trust yourself.
Type Seven: It's not okay to depend on anyone for anything.
Type Eight: It's not okay to be vulnerable or to trust anyone.
Type Nine: It's not okay to assert yourself.

@#!*% ...One really hit home, for once. Eight kinda sorta.

Sure, they're kind of exaggerated. No, I did not have shit parents that instilled an intense fear of failure in me. Au contraire, I think my parents did the best job with me that they could have. But it kind of tackles the base problems. It's an extreme, if you will, but a good place to start.

 

[Jaguar]

They all seem kind of like the same to me...

Pretty much.
At this point, I don't find the enneagram useful. Others may, but it's just not for me.

 

[Zarathustra]

Type One: It's not okay to make mistakes.
Type Two: It's not okay to have your own needs.
Type Three: It's not okay to have your own feelings and identity.
Type Four: It's not okay to be too functional or too happy.
Type Five: It's not okay to be comfortable in the world.
Type Six: It's not okay to trust yourself.
Type Seven: It's not okay to depend on anyone for anything.
Type Eight: It's not okay to be vulnerable or to trust anyone.
Type Nine: It's not okay to assert yourself.

When I look at this version of them, the ones for e5 and e8 stick out -- e8 more probably.

Could be cuz I'm still/always in need of integrating towards 8...

Type One:…. “You are good.”
Type Two: …”“You are wanted.”
Type Three: .“You are loved for yourself.”
Type Four: …“You are seen for who you are.”
Type Five: ….“Your needs are not a problem.”
Type Six: … ..“You are safe.”
Type Seven:..“You will be taken care of.”
Type Eight: ..“You will not be betrayed.”
Type Nine: ...“Your presence matters.”

It's interesting, cuz I just looked back at these again, and, when I thought of it in a purely positive light, as opposed to thinking that this was a message that was missing from my childhood, but more something that's just good for me to feel, or tell myself, or live according to, like a mantra, the one for e5 definitely stood out from the rest and spoke to me...



EDIT: The interesting thing is, though, it almost speaks to me from a level of guilt. I'm not sure if that's completely accurate, but it's kinda like, "it's okay to worry about your needs". Your needs do need to get taken care of. I'm not sure if that's where it's supposed to be coming from...

 

[Silveresque]

Type Five: It's not okay to be comfortable in the world.

I don't get it. Why wouldn't you want to be comfortable in the world? All the other ones make sense, but I don't understand this one.

 

[Zarathustra]

I don't get it. Why wouldn't you want to be comfortable in the world? All the other ones make sense, but I don't understand this one.

Umm...

It's not a matter of whether you want to be or not...

It's a matter of whether you are...

 

[011235813]

I don't get it. Why wouldn't you want to be comfortable in the world? All the other ones make sense, but I don't understand this one.

It's sort of like expecting a crisis to break out any minute and fretting and preparing feverishly for the inevitable moment when everything is going to go horribly wrong. You can't be comfortable because you know it's not going to last, so you need to be ready for it and have your defences up and running, etc.

 

[Zarathustra]

It's sort of like expecting a crisis to break out any minute and fretting and preparing feverishly for the inevitable moment when everything is going to go horribly wrong. You can't be comfortable because you know it's not going to last, so you need to be ready for it and have your defences up and running, etc.

Interesting...

Where do you get that interpretation from?

I'm not arguing against it, it's just, that makes it feel a lot more like me than any of the one-liners above.

 

[011235813]

Interesting...

Where do you get that interpretation from?

I'm not arguing against it, it's just, that makes it feel a lot more like me than any of the one-liners above.

It just makes sense given the rest of what I know about 5's. They feel inadequate and attempt to make up for their inadequacies by acquiring as much knowledge as they can to navigate their way through life. It's kind of like a siege mentality; 5's are boxed in by their perceptions of their own defects and convinced that they're not going to go away, so they prepare for contingencies (i.e. the possibility of being tripped up by something - the horror!) by retreating and hoarding in preparation.

(Also, 5 is one of the enneagram types that resonates most with me but that's not saying much, about half the enneagram types resonate with me. )

 

[kissmyasthma]

Type Five: It's not okay to be comfortable in the world.

This definitely resonates with me. I grew up thinking that it was bad to feel comfortable and let my guard down, and I still act that way. :/

Type Five: ….“Your needs are not a problem.”
Type Six: … ..“You are safe.”

I think both of these apply, but especially the type 6 one.

 

[Silveresque]

It's sort of like expecting a crisis to break out any minute and fretting and preparing feverishly for the inevitable moment when everything is going to go horribly wrong. You can't be comfortable because you know it's not going to last, so you need to be ready for it and have your defences up and running, etc.

Are all 5's like that? I don't necessarily expect things to go wrong, and I don't worry about letting my guard down. When there's something I have to get ready for that's making me nervous, I usually just don't think about it so I don't get stressed out.

 

[011235813]

Are all 5's like that? I don't necessarily expect things to go wrong, and I don't worry about letting my guard down. When there's something I have to get ready for that's making me nervous, I usually just don't think about it so I don't get stressed out.

Oh, I don't mean to suggest that all 5's are completely neurotic though I guess my description sounds that way. (What can I say, I'm given to hyperbole.) I think there's a kernel of truth to it though; 5's are typically quite reluctant to engage especially in unfamiliar situations, they're just not the "jump in and get your hands dirty" type, and they like to collect and process information, lots and lots of it.

Why?

I can't believe it's not symptomatic of some sort of anxiety. It's not crippling anxiety by any means (usually) but that doesn't mean it's not there.

 

[VagrantFarce]

Yeah, fives tend to be emotionally and physically very reticent, but mentally very fixated and engaged. That's pretty much what it's talking about. Pathological Fives need to learn that it's OK to engage emotionally and physically (or at least remind themselves to), instead of distracting themselves with meaningless obsessions.

Speaking of which

/logs off

 

[Viridian]

The more I find out about the Enneagram, the more depressing it sounds...

 

[011235813]

I decided to go through these and bold the ones that apply to me. As usual, the results were wonderfully conclusive.

Type One: It's not okay to make mistakes.
Type Two: It's not okay to have your own needs.
Type Three: It's not okay to have your own feelings and identity.
Type Four: It's not okay to be too functional or too happy.
Type Five: It's not okay to be comfortable in the world.
Type Six: It's not okay to trust yourself.
Type Seven: It's not okay to depend on anyone for anything.
Type Eight: It's not okay to be vulnerable or to trust anyone.
Type Nine: It's not okay to assert yourself.

Type One:…. “You are good.”
Type Two: …“You are wanted.”
Type Three: .“You are loved for yourself.”
Type Four: …“You are seen for who you are.”
Type Five: ….“Your needs are not a problem.”
Type Six: … ..“You are safe.”
Type Seven:..“You will be taken care of.”
Type Eight: ..“You will not be betrayed.”
Type Nine: ...“Your presence matters.”

 

[Richardsen]

I relate with 4 and 5.
Easy... 4w5

 

[EJCC]

I relate to absolutely none of the quotes in the OP. If I were to pick a lost childhood message for type 1, it would be "You are imperfect and that's okay", or "No one hates you for being wrong sometimes".

A good one for 1w2 or 2w1 might be "You deserve to be loved."


(Also, here's the ones I related to in the second set:
Type One: It's not okay to make mistakes.
Type Two: It's not okay to have your own needs.
Type Three: It's not okay to have your own feelings and identity.
Type Four: It's not okay to be too functional or too happy.
Type Five: It's not okay to be comfortable in the world.
Type Six: It's not okay to trust yourself.
Type Seven: It's not okay to depend on anyone for anything.
Type Eight: It's not okay to be vulnerable or to trust anyone.
Type Nine: It's not okay to assert yourself.)

 

[OrangeAppled]

Type One:…. “You are good.” - Got it from most everyone
Type Two: …”“You are wanted.” - Got it from my mom, didn't get it from my dad
Type Three: ...“You are loved for yourself.” - Might have missed this due to the 4 message....but I always felt loved by my mom & other family, that unconditional kind of love too.
Type Four...“You are seen for who you are.” - Definitely did not feel this. I felt misunderstood a lot by my mom & other family, despite their good intentions. I still don't feel like my dad has a clue about who I am.
Type Five: ...“Your needs are not a problem.” - I did not get this message from my dad at all, who was wholly unconcerned with my needs; and sometimes I may have lacked it from my mom when she had her depressive periods (again, despite her good intentions). Sometimes my mom smothered also; the inconsistency is interesting....I always felt I couldn't go to people with my needs though. I took to speaking through my older sister at times.
Type Six: … ..“You are safe.” - I generally got this message.
Type Seven:..“You will be taken care of.” - I sometimes lacked this, but it did not seem intentional. Sometimes it seems like my parents were unable to care for me due to financial struggles. I felt like a burden at times in that way, even though they never said anything of the sort.
Type Eight: ..“You will not be betrayed.” - I felt betrayal from my dad when he left, but never by my mom.
Type Nine: ...“Your presence matters.” - I got this message from my mom & others, but not my dad, as he made little effort to see me growing up.

I don't particularly agree with the following, as I think some miss the core motivation for the type.

Type One: It's not okay to make mistakes. - I didn't get this message.
Type Two: It's not okay to have your own needs. - I didn't get this message.
Type Three: It's not okay to have your own feelings and identity. -I sometimes got this message.
Type Four: It's not okay to be too functional or too happy. - I got this message indirectly.
Type Five: It's not okay to be comfortable in the world. - I sometimes got this message.
Type Six: It's not okay to trust yourself. - I didn't get this message.
Type Seven: It's not okay to depend on anyone for anything. - I didn't get this message.
Type Eight: It's not okay to be vulnerable or to trust anyone. - I didn't get this message.
Type Nine: It's not okay to assert yourself. - I sometimes got this message.

I wouldn't go so far as this, cuz I think that some of the negative versions of these ideas can affect someone no matter how good their parents are

Agreed. Unless you & your parents are perfect, then they probably sent less than positive messages at times, even if indirectly & very subtly or if it was simply your perception of it; and your emotional motivations will be affected by these messages, even if only a little, so that you're still a generally well-adjusted person.

 

[KDude]

I don't understand any of this.

It could my fault, but it's pretty damn vague. Exactly who is supposed to be telling me these things? My parents?

 

[011235813]

I don't understand any of this.

It could my fault, but it's pretty damn vague. Exactly who is supposed to be telling me these things? My parents?

Authority figures in general, I think.