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  1. #21
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Even trying to be as excellent a parent as possible doesn't ensure you don't miss a thing here or there.

    I have a personal example - one thing we decided our kids would not have to do was struggle with their post-secondary education. When they were born we started saving and each has scholarships to cover the expenses as a result. One of the savings programs we enrolled in had this certificate you could frame and hang on your kids bedroom wall.

    It looked like a real diploma. It said basically, "You have savings to be able to go to any school, so dream, dream BIG!"

    Incentivizing to my daughter.

    Demotivating to my son. My son told me when he was about 18 that every time he saw it hanging on the wall, it was like these expectations hanging over his head, that he had to be successful and do well in school, that he had to live up to this goal that he didn't know if he wanted. That he would be letting us down if he didn't go.

    And as attuned as I am to emotions and how my kids are feeling, his response floored me, I never imagined it could make him feel like that.

    So, I really don't buy the whole, "You had to have a crappy parent to identify with the enneagram" thing. The evolution of a child's development, their interaction with siblings and peers, with either parent and even step-parents, other significant adult roles, all of that ties into the enneagram. Talking about "parenting" is a handy shorthand - the birth parents are of course, a huge component, but there's more nuance there, and I'm not uncomfortable with that.

    We all developed strategies to have our needs met.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  2. #22
    Intergalactic Badass mujigay's Avatar
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    Type One: It's not okay to make mistakes.
    Type Two: It's not okay to have your own needs.
    Type Three: It's not okay to have your own feelings and identity.
    Type Four: It's not okay to be too functional or too happy.
    Type Five: It's not okay to be comfortable in the world.
    Type Six: It's not okay to trust yourself.
    Type Seven: It's not okay to depend on anyone for anything.
    Type Eight: It's not okay to be vulnerable or to trust anyone.
    Type Nine: It's not okay to assert yourself.
    @#!*% ...One really hit home, for once. Eight kinda sorta.

    Sure, they're kind of exaggerated. No, I did not have shit parents that instilled an intense fear of failure in me. Au contraire, I think my parents did the best job with me that they could have. But it kind of tackles the base problems. It's an extreme, if you will, but a good place to start.
    1w9 sx/sp
    A little song, a little dance, a little seltzer down your pants.

    All that is gold does not glitter
    Not all those who wander are lost

  3. #23
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    They all seem kind of like the same to me...
    Pretty much.
    At this point, I don't find the enneagram useful. Others may, but it's just not for me.

  4. #24
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    Type One: It's not okay to make mistakes.
    Type Two: It's not okay to have your own needs.
    Type Three: It's not okay to have your own feelings and identity.
    Type Four: It's not okay to be too functional or too happy.
    Type Five: It's not okay to be comfortable in the world.
    Type Six: It's not okay to trust yourself.
    Type Seven: It's not okay to depend on anyone for anything.
    Type Eight: It's not okay to be vulnerable or to trust anyone.
    Type Nine: It's not okay to assert yourself.
    When I look at this version of them, the ones for e5 and e8 stick out -- e8 more probably.

    Could be cuz I'm still/always in need of integrating towards 8...



    Type One:…. “You are good.”
    Type Two: …”“You are wanted.”
    Type Three: .“You are loved for yourself.”
    Type Four: …“You are seen for who you are.”
    Type Five: ….“Your needs are not a problem.”
    Type Six: … ..“You are safe.”
    Type Seven:..“You will be taken care of.”
    Type Eight: ..“You will not be betrayed.”
    Type Nine: ...“Your presence matters.”
    It's interesting, cuz I just looked back at these again, and, when I thought of it in a purely positive light, as opposed to thinking that this was a message that was missing from my childhood, but more something that's just good for me to feel, or tell myself, or live according to, like a mantra, the one for e5 definitely stood out from the rest and spoke to me...



    EDIT: The interesting thing is, though, it almost speaks to me from a level of guilt. I'm not sure if that's completely accurate, but it's kinda like, "it's okay to worry about your needs". Your needs do need to get taken care of. I'm not sure if that's where it's supposed to be coming from...
    Last edited by Zarathustra; 10-14-2011 at 01:06 PM.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Type Five: It's not okay to be comfortable in the world.
    I don't get it. Why wouldn't you want to be comfortable in the world? All the other ones make sense, but I don't understand this one.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevlisZero View Post
    I don't get it. Why wouldn't you want to be comfortable in the world? All the other ones make sense, but I don't understand this one.
    Umm...

    It's not a matter of whether you want to be or not...

    It's a matter of whether you are...


  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevlisZero View Post
    I don't get it. Why wouldn't you want to be comfortable in the world? All the other ones make sense, but I don't understand this one.
    It's sort of like expecting a crisis to break out any minute and fretting and preparing feverishly for the inevitable moment when everything is going to go horribly wrong. You can't be comfortable because you know it's not going to last, so you need to be ready for it and have your defences up and running, etc.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by senza_tema View Post
    It's sort of like expecting a crisis to break out any minute and fretting and preparing feverishly for the inevitable moment when everything is going to go horribly wrong. You can't be comfortable because you know it's not going to last, so you need to be ready for it and have your defences up and running, etc.
    Interesting...

    Where do you get that interpretation from?

    I'm not arguing against it, it's just, that makes it feel a lot more like me than any of the one-liners above.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Interesting...

    Where do you get that interpretation from?

    I'm not arguing against it, it's just, that makes it feel a lot more like me than any of the one-liners above.
    It just makes sense given the rest of what I know about 5's. They feel inadequate and attempt to make up for their inadequacies by acquiring as much knowledge as they can to navigate their way through life. It's kind of like a siege mentality; 5's are boxed in by their perceptions of their own defects and convinced that they're not going to go away, so they prepare for contingencies (i.e. the possibility of being tripped up by something - the horror!) by retreating and hoarding in preparation.

    (Also, 5 is one of the enneagram types that resonates most with me but that's not saying much, about half the enneagram types resonate with me. )

  10. #30
    Member kissmyasthma's Avatar
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    Type Five: It's not okay to be comfortable in the world.
    This definitely resonates with me. I grew up thinking that it was bad to feel comfortable and let my guard down, and I still act that way. :/

    Type Five: ….“Your needs are not a problem.”
    Type Six: … ..“You are safe.”
    I think both of these apply, but especially the type 6 one.

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