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Thread: 1w9 vs. 4w5?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Cloud of Thunder's Avatar
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    Question 1w9 vs. 4w5?

    On the surface, these two seem alike in terms of emotional expression and maybe even core values, but what are some distinguishing characteristics?

  2. #2
    Ginkgo
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    4w5 would rather reform themselves while 1w9 would rather reform the world. 4w5s cultivate their identity through feelings, 1w9s cultivate their endeavors with their deeply held values. 4w5s are more likely to feel overwhelmed whereas 1w9s are more likely see a need to mediate.

    I'm a 4w5 and I tend to feel a sort of kinship with 1w9s because I get the impression that we're both idealists, but where I'm naive and hopeful about how we might rehash things for the better, 1w9s tend to be a bit more realistic and perhaps more frustrated, cynical, and prudent about what projects they start.

    Perhaps I look endearing to them when I integrate into point 1. Lol.

    I think both types tend to also become fixated on things to be improved upon, so their occupations have a tendency to be well defined. Where 5s would rather grind a faulty system/theory/idea into dust, a 4 might see the potential in it, and a 1 may say that it's not worth their time at all. If the 4's hopefulness is a consummate aspect of its identity, then perhaps a 1 might gain a more global perspective, leaving room for later reforms without being so personally attached. I'm thinking the instincts probably play a large roll in this as well. 4s tend to become their ideas incarnate, 1s just toss ideas out there if they find something lacking.

    While everyone has core values, I don't think it's wise to say that just because 1s and 4s may have similar tendencies means that their egos hold these tendencies as some sort of deliberate agenda. Enneagram points are like drivers, which may operate unconscious to the individual. What individuals hold to be true or worthy are going to differ, even if their behaviors and methods are the same.

    1s tend to strike me as tending to hang over slightly on the extraverted side, while 4s have a more evident tendency toward introversion.

    1s also tend to have a more robust appearance of confidence about them because social acceptance tends to be a lower priority.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Cloud of Thunder's Avatar
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    ^^ Given that statement, I wonder if I'm actually a 1. It's almost always among my top 3 scores, next to 3, 4, and 5.

  4. #4
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloud of Thunder View Post
    ^^ Given that statement, I wonder if I'm actually a 1. It's almost always among my top 3 scores, next to 3, 4, and 5.
    INFJ 4s are tricky bags of rice to me. They don't come across as wanting to define themselves, even though they tend to have a very particular image about them. I can only guess, but I think it's because of how the differences in functional preference effect how they alter things.




    The Heart Center consists of types: Two, Three, and Four.

    The Head Center consists of types: Five, Six, and Seven.

    The Gut Center consists of types: Eight, Nine, and One.



    The Centers can be differentiated from each other based upon how they approach others.

    Heart Center

    The Heart Center consists of those people who move towards others. They engage relationship.

    Picture yourself going to a party. When you get to the door what do you do? If you walk right in and begin talking and greeting others then you might belong in the Heart center. The Heart Center is emotion based. These types are image conscious. They are concerned with feelings and relationships. They are often busy doing.

    Head Center

    The Head Center types initially move away or withdraw from relationship.

    At a party those in the Head Center stand at the door and look to see who is present and what is happening. These people are Head based and like to have a good idea of what to expect before entering a new situation. They cautiously approach others. The Head center is a cognitive center. These people like to think but may be slow to act. The plan but may not implement.

    Gut Center

    The Gut Center types move in and against. They are direct and straight forward. They can be confrontational.

    At a party they would go right in and engage in hearty, jovial, back-slapping greetings that may put some people off. Or, they might offer the host a helpful criticism about how to improve some feature of the party. These types are based in instinctual energy. They tend to act first and later to think and feel in regard to their actions.

    If you know your style of approaching others then you can locate your center and narrow the choices for your type. Determine your center then look to those three types to find yourself.


    http://www.lessons4living.com/centers.htm


    By this token, I identify more as a Head type and secondarily as a Heart type. Take it with a grain of salt.

  5. #5
    Intergalactic Badass mujigay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    4w5 would rather reform themselves while 1w9 would rather reform the world. 4w5s cultivate their identity through feelings, 1w9s cultivate their endeavors with their deeply held values. 4w5s are more likely to feel overwhelmed whereas 1w9s are more likely see a need to mediate.

    I'm a 4w5 and I tend to feel a sort of kinship with 1w9s because I get the impression that we're both idealists, but where I'm naive and hopeful about how we might rehash things for the better, 1w9s tend to be a bit more realistic and perhaps more frustrated, cynical, and prudent about what projects they start.

    Perhaps I look endearing to them when I integrate into point 1. Lol.

    I think both types tend to also become fixated on things to be improved upon, so their occupations have a tendency to be well defined. Where 5s would rather grind a faulty system/theory/idea into dust, a 4 might see the potential in it, and a 1 may say that it's not worth their time at all. If the 4's hopefulness is a consummate aspect of its identity, then perhaps a 1 might gain a more global perspective, leaving room for later reforms without being so personally attached. I'm thinking the instincts probably play a large roll in this as well. 4s tend to become their ideas incarnate, 1s just toss ideas out there if they find something lacking.

    While everyone has core values, I don't think it's wise to say that just because 1s and 4s may have similar tendencies means that their egos hold these tendencies as some sort of deliberate agenda. Enneagram points are like drivers, which may operate unconscious to the individual. What individuals hold to be true or worthy are going to differ, even if their behaviors and methods are the same.

    1s tend to strike me as tending to hang over slightly on the extraverted side, while 4s have a more evident tendency toward introversion.

    1s also tend to have a more robust appearance of confidence about them because social acceptance tends to be a lower priority.
    I like this quite a bit.

    This is purely observational, so don't take it seriously, but have noticed that emotionally speaking, 4s are more likely to indulge. Even if they're in the pits of depression, there's usually some weird kind of masochistic pride that they have achieved emotional lows and understand the darkness in human nature. It's like "I'd rather feel pain than nothing at all." Whereas 1s I know are more likely to repress this kind of thing and keep denying and denying that they're depressed at all, until it all explodes out of them in a fit of temper and they get embarrased, percieving themselves as "weak."
    1w9 sx/sp
    A little song, a little dance, a little seltzer down your pants.

    All that is gold does not glitter
    Not all those who wander are lost

  6. #6
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by mujigay View Post
    I like this quite a bit.

    This is purely observational, so don't take it seriously, but have noticed that emotionally speaking, 4s are more likely to indulge. Even if they're in the pits of depression, there's usually some weird kind of masochistic pride that they have achieved emotional lows and understand the darkness in human nature. It's like "I'd rather feel pain than nothing at all." Whereas 1s I know are more likely to repress this kind of thing and keep denying and denying that they're depressed at all, until it all explodes out of them in a fit of temper and they get embarrased, percieving themselves as "weak."
    I've observed similar behaviors. 4s tend to devour the bad and chew it around with the good as though it were bad as well. Very little moderation in how they deal with their feelings, almost to the point where those feelings create a severe tunnel vision. I'm pretty sure the enneagram denotes 1s as being compelled by anger, even when they appear sober-minded in their decision making processes. As a 4, it comes across as a failure to recognize the reasons for their actions and a lack of introspection. Sometimes the quality of their output suffers because they don't sew good seeds internally. Even in casual behavior I can feel their undertones of frustration. It's probably the primary thing that causes misunderstanding between me and them.

  7. #7
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mujigay View Post
    I like this quite a bit.

    This is purely observational, so don't take it seriously, but have noticed that emotionally speaking, 4s are more likely to indulge. Even if they're in the pits of depression, there's usually some weird kind of masochistic pride that they have achieved emotional lows and understand the darkness in human nature. It's like "I'd rather feel pain than nothing at all." Whereas 1s I know are more likely to repress this kind of thing and keep denying and denying that they're depressed at all, until it all explodes out of them in a fit of temper and they get embarrased, percieving themselves as "weak."
    That's quite true & a key point in their differences. Since 4s integrate at 1, a big part of their self-development is learning to get past the emotional feelings which overwhelm them, which can involve working in some 1 traits, which is not to deny emotions, but not allowing emotions to cripple them. Interestingly, since 1s disintegrate at 4, those moments where suppressed emotion all comes out can resemble a low functioning 4 who has become moody & volatile.

    I admire 1s on paper, but I wonder if in reality they're a reminder of where I am falling short of my ideal, and I am a reminder to them of the worst in themselves. It seems kind of like an anima/animus dynamic (in my case, Fi/Te).
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  8. #8
    Senior Member sulfit's Avatar
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    4s seem to have a greater need for self-expression and desire to be seen as unique. I joined another smaller typology forum where there was a poster of same type and instinctual stackings as me. Our profiles looked quite similar, so he immediately made some changes to his profile I'm assuming to differentiate himself and stand out. As a 1 such things do not catch my attention.

    4s also deal with some emotions that don't seem to affect 1s. I remember several type 4 forum members making posts about their issues with envy and self-pity. The former emotion I simply don't experience as a 1, while the later is mainly suppressed. When people start pitying themselves I immediately develop an angry reaction and a desire to tell them to grow a backbone.

    On the other side 4s are more creative than me, especially when it comes to self-expression. I often don't express my feelings, it seems foreign to me. I am more rigid in my thinking, less adaptable, more practical and give preference to ideas that have some use or can be implemented into real life.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Cloud of Thunder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sulfit View Post
    4s seem to have a greater need for self-expression and desire to be seen as unique. I joined another smaller typology forum where there was a poster of same type and instinctual stackings as me. Our profiles looked quite similar, so he immediately made some changes to his profile I'm assuming to differentiate himself and stand out. As a 1 such things do not catch my attention.

    4s also deal with some emotions that don't seem to affect 1s. I remember several type 4 forum members making posts about their issues with envy and self-pity. The former emotion I simply don't experience as a 1, while the later is mainly suppressed. When people start pitying themselves I immediately develop an angry reaction and a desire to tell them to grow a backbone.

    On the other side 4s are more creative than me, especially when it comes to self-expression. I often don't express my feelings, it seems foreign to me. I am more rigid in my thinking, less adaptable, more practical and give preference to ideas that have some use or can be implemented into real life.
    It's funny you mention that because I'm actually trying to get over a sudden bout of depression, and with that usually comes self-pity and some degree of self-indulgence.

    And I think I just confirmed myself as a 4w5...

  10. #10
    Senior Member Cloud of Thunder's Avatar
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    I wonder if my being an INFJ sways this dilemma.

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