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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Enneagram's accuracy is validated by experience, yes.
    As perhaps this could be too. It's quite reactionary and close-minded to assume that all new hypotheses are WRONG before you've even attempted to test them according to the criteria you mentioned. This is new so obviously data collection is going to take a little more time.

  2. #22
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by senza_tema View Post
    As perhaps this could be too. It's quite reactionary and close-minded to assume that all new hypotheses are WRONG before you've even attempted to test them according to the criteria you mentioned. This is new so obviously data collection is going to take a little more time.
    It's naive to think taht a new hypothesis is right. And what I see is that Zang's one is shit.

    Enneagram was new to me either at the beginning, and I was very skeptic about that, but I was finally convinced. So, I'am not reactionnary or close minded, but simply critical and perfectly able to differentiate a right opinion next to a wrong opinion.

    That's it.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    It's naive to think taht a new hypothesis is right. And what I see is that Zang's one is shit.

    Enneagram was new to me either at the beginning, and I was very skeptic about that, but I was finally convinced. So, I'am not reactionnary or close minded, but simply critical and perfectly able to differentiate a right opinion next to a wrong opinion.

    That's it.
    You assume that not saying "THIS SUCKS LOLOL!!1" from the get go is a wholesale adoption of a particular viewpoint. It's not. The point of this thread is to assess, critique and correct what exists, not to accept or reject it out of hand.

    Of course, you're entitled to your views as we're all entitled to ours.

  4. #24
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by senza_tema View Post
    You assume that not saying "THIS SUCKS LOLOL!!1" from the get go is a wholesale adoption of a particular viewpoint. It's not. The point of this thread is to assess, critique and correct what exists, not to accept or reject it out of hand.

    Of course, you're entitled to your views as we're all entitled to ours.
    Enneagram is an esoteric system who is an heritage of a millenary tradition, Zang's system is just a product of his intelectual masturbation.
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    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Enneagram is an esoteric system who is an heritage of a millenary tradition, Zang's system is just a product of his intelectual masturbation.
    Irrelevant. You're not analysing the system he's described critically. Instead, you're resorting to slapping on a bunch of labels without any real analysis of what you perceive the problem to be.

    Obviously you don't need to engage a system you find unattractive or flawed but don't expect other people to accept your blanket assertions that "THIS IS WRONG" without any kind of substantive explanation behind it.

  6. #26
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by senza_tema View Post
    Irrelevant. You're not analysing the system he's described critically. Instead, you're resorting to slapping on a bunch of labels without any real analysis of what you perceive the problem to be.

    Obviously you don't need to engage a system you find unattractive or flawed but don't expect other people to accept your blanket assertions that "THIS IS WRONG" without any kind of substantive explanation behind it.
    I analysed it, but I have'nt the drive to argue or convince you, it would be too much tiring I'm here in dilletant. I'm not that I'am right and that's enough to me.

    It's your role to prove that that system is correct if you are a believer.
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  7. #27
    Intergalactic Badass mujigay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    It's naive to think taht a new hypothesis is right. And what I see is that Zang's one is shit.

    Enneagram was new to me either at the beginning, and I was very skeptic about that, but I was finally convinced. So, I'am not reactionnary or close minded, but simply critical and perfectly able to differentiate a right opinion next to a wrong opinion.
    That's it.
    I just found that little gem enormously entertaining.

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  8. #28
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    I guess I am a bit confused by the OP in general. 'The primary fear of psychopaths, sociopaths, and those who indulge'...

    That seems to be an odd combination, or am i missing something? I get that INTJ's tend to abhor self-indulgence, lol, but also think that many people self indulge in some fashion (even INTJ's) and wonder why your throwing these into the same category?

    I also think placing a psychopath or sociopath into ANY enneagram type would be extremely difficult. Just like placing someone with schizophrenia. The enneagrams point is to classify and categorize fixations and behaviors that revolve around a powerful, largely unconscious emotional response to the loss of contact with the core of the self.

    The very biological nature of the sociopath and psychopath would be at odds in understanding how fixation develops through emotional responce of loss of contact with core self, because neurologically they don't have the capacity for emotional responce. Atleast they don't have the capacity for empathy I should say. And perhaps that is where I'm wrong.. that you'd have to have some kind of empathetic component to even emotionally respond hmmm........

    Anyhow - Here is an interesting article: http://home.uchicago.edu/decety/publ...ety_ER2011.pdf

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  9. #29
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    I analysed it, but I have'nt the drive to argue or convince you, it would be too much tiring I'm here in dilletant. I'm not that I'am right and that's enough to me.

    It's your role to prove that that system is correct if you are a believer.
    It's not about believing or not believing, it's about trying to understand without throwing it away immediately. If you're going to say things like "that's bullshit, intellectual masturbation" etc. you should be willing to back it up- or else, just consider your "analysis" right and move on without saying anything- what you're doing here is just trolling and bothering people around you without adding anything of real substance- I can't speak for anyone else, (though I'm guessing many would agree) when I say I want to read content - for or against the OP topic.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    I guess I am a bit confused by the OP in general. 'The primary fear of psychopaths, sociopaths, and those who indulge'...

    That seems to be an odd combination, or am i missing something? I get that INTJ's tend to abhor self-indulgence, lol, but also think that many people self indulge in some fashion (even INTJ's) and wonder why your throwing these into the same category?

    I also think placing a psychopath or sociopath into ANY enneagram type would be extremely difficult. Just like placing someone with schizophrenia. The enneagrams point is to classify and categorize fixations and behaviors that revolve around a powerful, largely unconscious emotional response to the loss of contact with the core of the self.

    The very biological nature of the sociopath and psychopath would be at odds in understanding how fixation develops through emotional responce of loss of contact with core self, because neurologically they don't have the capacity for emotional responce. Atleast they don't have the capacity for empathy I should say. And perhaps that is where I'm wrong.. that you'd have to have some kind of empathetic component to even emotionally respond hmmm........

    Anyhow - Here is an interesting article: http://home.uchicago.edu/decety/publ...ety_ER2011.pdf

    I
    @Zang isn't using the terms "sociopath" and "psychopath" in the medical sense, nor are all 11s and 12s actually deranged individuals. These are just labels to describe the groups until he (or someone else) can find better names for them. Although, since it's interesting to think about, why did you choose these particular names?

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