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  1. #31
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Excellent question. I would say - nothing. The type 4 qualities I had previously just vanished one day. The day before they up and left, I was like this:
    http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/typefour.asp

    and the next day I was no longer like that.
    Not that I think you're a four, at all, but part of becoming a healthy four is stopping thinking like that. I get healthy, and then I find myself questioning my type. So I do all this soul searching, then have a day of doom and gloom and remember, oh yeah... I'm a four. So the key is just getting over all that and no longer being trapped by my idea of who ' the real me' is, just accepting the four vulnerabilities and then transcending them.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    This is a good point to consider. You should relate to most levels of your type at various points throughout your life. I can see myself in the 4 from the bottom to the top, depending on how stable I was/am. I may relate to aspects of other types, but not at every level.
    Even level 1?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #33
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Even level 1?
    Level 1 in which direction (top or bottom)? I didn't say or mean every aspect of every level; I meant many aspects of most levels. I realize many of us haven't hit rock bottom or reached self-actualization .
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    Not that I think you're a four, at all, but part of becoming a healthy four is stopping thinking like that. I get healthy, and then I find myself questioning my type. So I do all this soul searching, then have a day of doom and gloom and remember, oh yeah... I'm a four. So the key is just getting over all that and no longer being trapped by my idea of who ' the real me' is, just accepting the four vulnerabilities and then transcending them.
    I'm sure it's that way with any enneagram type. You think "oh I'm totally past all the negative associations with this enneagram." Because all of the enneagrams do pretty much focus on weak points.

    Here's me as a nutcase:
    Level 6: To compensate for insecurities, they become sarcastic and belligerent, blaming others for their problems, taking a tough stance toward "outsiders." Highly reactive and defensive, dividing people into friends and enemies, while looking for threats to their own security. Authoritarian while fearful of authority, highly suspicious, yet, conspiratorial, and fear-instilling to silence their own fears.
    Anyone recognize that person?

    I identify with healthier levels than 6 though, I'm periodically healthier or happier, depending on phases of my life, I think I've gotten all the way up to Level 2, even with slight glimpses of Level 1 for short periods of time.

    Then I have a bad day and act like a level 6. I've even seen 7. I think am at around a 5 right now.

    I don't think it's like you start at average and work your way up to level 2 or 1, and then live happily ever after. I'm pretty sure that's not how it works at all, though it could for some people, people simply are not at "their best" every single day, no matter how healthy they are or how much therapy they've had.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    Not that I think you're a four, at all, but part of becoming a healthy four is stopping thinking like that. I get healthy, and then I find myself questioning my type. So I do all this soul searching, then have a day of doom and gloom and remember, oh yeah... I'm a four. So the key is just getting over all that and no longer being trapped by my idea of who ' the real me' is, just accepting the four vulnerabilities and then transcending them.
    As you said, I'm not a four, and I'm not in that place you're describing. And at the time I found that I was not a 4, I would still engage in whipping my emotions into an intense frenzy in an effort to master them. That continued until the day I hit bottom, and was forced to recognize that maybe this wasn't such a good thing to do with my emotions.

    But I've had different relationships with my emotions down through the years. When I was about 10 years old I made a rational, conscious decision to stop crying when I was hurt, based on the reasoning that crying doesn't make anything better. And so I stopped.

    These decisions are much easier at that age, before everything in the psyche is set and stone, when the mind becomes just one big bundle of ingrained habits that are extremely difficult to change. So it's difficult to see how you can simply 'stop thinking like that.' The adult mind isn't that flexible, and most so-called willpower is just a delusion. Strengthening the will is required before progress can be made.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #36
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Level 1 in which direction (top or bottom)? I didn't say or mean every aspect of every level; I meant many aspects of most levels. I realize many of us haven't hit rock bottom or reached self-actualization .
    I thought you said you had been at every level of the type 4. Never mind.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #37
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    As you said, I'm not a four, and I'm not in that place you're describing. And at the time I found that I was not a 4, I would still engage in whipping my emotions into an intense frenzy in an effort to master them. That continued until one day I hit bottom, and was forced to recognize that maybe this wasn't such a good thing to do with my emotions.

    But I've had different relationships with my emotions down through the years. When I was about 10 years old I made a rational, conscious decision to stop crying when I was hurt, based on the reasoning that crying doesn't make anything better. And so I stopped.

    These decisions are much easier at that age, before everything in the psyche is set and stone, when the mind becomes just one big bundle of ingrained habits that are extremely difficult to change. So it's difficult to see how you can simply 'stop thinking like that.' The adult mind isn't that flexible, and most so-called willpower is just a delusion. Strengthening the will is required before progress can be made.
    Spoken like a true introverted thinking five... some of us like the messiness of life.

  8. #38
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    I am apparently a 2w3 Sx/So. Is that weird for an ExFJ?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  9. #39
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    Being a 2 or 3 or 2w3 or 3w2 would be extremely common for ESFJ.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    When I was about 10 years old I made a rational, conscious decision to stop crying when I was hurt, based on the reasoning that crying doesn't make anything better. And so I stopped.
    Actually it releases toxins from your body (including your own emotional/hormonal "toxins" in the form of negative feelings) so it does serve a health purpose and it's perfectly rational to cry. It's a release.

    But I can see how a little boy would think that, since it didn't serve any purpose he could see.

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