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Enneatypes with lots of Enneatype-Instinct Variant dissonance

Elfboy

Certified Sausage Smoker
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
9,625
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Sx 1s: 1s seek propriety and poise; Sx types seek intimacy, sensuality and intensity
Sp 2s: Sp seeks self satisfaction and safety; 2s are all about being loved by/belonging with others
So last 3s: 3s measure success and worth by external standards; So last types care little for the opinions of others
So 4s: So seeks unity and belonging; 4s run away from unity and belonging
So 5s: 5s seek intellectual pursuits, quiet time to think, So seeks groups of people and light hearted conversation
6s: none
Sp 7s: 7 seeks pleasure, high energy and stimulation; Sp seeks safety, low intensity and low energy
So 8s: So seeks belonging and unity; 8 seeks power, control, independence and autonomy
9s: none
 

Catharsis

New member
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Jul 29, 2011
Messages
84
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instincts are simply the domain where we focus the fears and desires of the ego, so a social 5 will seek the role of a guru, bringing their expertise forth to the rest of the group and often seeking out arenas like academics where they can function as such. Selfpreservation 7's will focus to have their needs met in more practical and material areas and can feel deprived when those requirements are not met, etc.
 

Elfboy

Certified Sausage Smoker
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Messages
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MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Instincts are simply the domain where we focus the fears and desires of the ego, so a social 5 will seek the role of a guru, bringing their expertise forth to the rest of the group and often seeking out arenas like academics where they can function as such. Selfpreservation 7's will focus to have their needs met in more practical and material areas and can feel deprived when those requirements are not met, etc.

I know this, I'm simply stating contrast within a person who was Sp 2, So 8 etc
 

Catharsis

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5w4
My point is, the instincts will play out differently depending on type and there's not really a "dissonance" going on. A social 4 wants to belong, be involved with others and be part of a special group, but fear normality and don't want to compromise their identity. It isn't a dissonance because they do desire a place where they fit in, they just want to fit in with those who are as elite as they are.
 

Elfboy

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sx/sp
My point is, the instincts will play out differently depending on type and there's not really a "dissonance" going on. A social 4 wants to belong, be involved with others and be part of a special group, but fear normality and don't want to compromise their identity. It isn't a dissonance because they do desire a place where they fit in, they just want to fit in with those who are as elite as they are.
but it is dissonance. the motivations you've just listened are exact opposites of each other, but they can still exist in the same person and both be fulfilled, doing both at the same time is just more complicated
 

Catharsis

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They want to belong, but in an elite group. Those aren't opposites.

A type 1 wants to have integrity and to be "perfect", therefore in sexual 1's this desire is mainly focused in the area of intimate relationships. There's no dissonance.
 

chickpea

perfect person
Joined
Sep 12, 2009
Messages
5,729
MBTI Type
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4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
elfboy, you need to get a book on the enneagram, there's too much misinformation and dumb theories people made up flying around the internet. everyone should, actually.
 

Viridian

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IsFJ
A few excerpts form a website that might clarify some things:

"One-to-One Subtype Ones have a driving need to perfect others, particularly those who matter to them, as well as to perfect society in general. They perceive reforming others as both their right and their responsibility, and they go about this with intensity and passion."

"Self-Preservation Subtype Twos deny their own needs for protection while at the same time trying to attract others who will provide exactly that for them. Drawing others to them in the same way that children do – that is, by being appealing and appearing to be without guile – self-preservation Twos are also ambivalent about close relationships and less trusting than social subtype or one-on-one subtype Twos."

"Social Subtype Fours focus more on their deficiencies and also on earning the understanding and appreciation of the groups to which they belong. They want understanding and appreciation for their suffering and sorrows, and desire acknowledgment for their heartfelt contributions to groups, while at the same time they often feel marginal to or not fully part of groups."

"Social Subtype Fives want to find and develop strong connections with individuals who share their super-ideals, but they become disengaged when forced to live in way that is not aligned with these higher-order beliefs. They focus on the group in search of extraordinary individuals, then hoard these relationships and/or their shared ideas and, in the Five's view, superior values."

"Self-Preservation Subtype Sevens try to create close networks of family, friends, and colleagues, not only to keep themselves feeling both stimulated and secure but also to generate new and interesting opportunities to pursue."

"Social Subtype Eights vigorously protect others from unjust and unfair authorities and systems and challenge social norms. At the same time, they seek power, influence, and pleasure. Wanting loyalty from others and being highly loyal themselves, they derive a feeling of power from challenging others as well as from defending those under their protection, which makes them feel less vulnerable."

From here.
 

Elfboy

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:doh:
you people are fucking idiots. stop telling me what I need to do and that I don't know what I'm talking about when you lack the insight to even understand what I'm talking about. if you can't at least try to understand the point I'm trying to make then shut the fuck up and sit yo ass down!

this is not directed at a single person, it's directed at several people
 

Catharsis

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INFP
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5w4
:doh:
you people are fucking idiots. stop telling me what I need to do and that I don't know what I'm talking about when you lack the insight to even understand what I'm talking about. if you can't at least try to understand the point I'm trying to make then shut the fuck up and sit yo ass down!

this is not directed at a single person, it directed at several people
Classy.
 

Elfboy

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Messages
9,625
MBTI Type
ENFP
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5w4
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sx/sp
A few excerpts form a website that might clarify some things:

"One-to-One Subtype Ones have a driving need to perfect others, particularly those who matter to them, as well as to perfect society in general. They perceive reforming others as both their right and their responsibility, and they go about this with intensity and passion."
wow, Sx 1s sound really messed up :D

"Self-Preservation Subtype Twos deny their own needs for protection while at the same time trying to attract others who will provide exactly that for them. Drawing others to them in the same way that children do – that is, by being appealing and appearing to be without guile – self-preservation Twos are also ambivalent about close relationships and less trusting than social subtype or one-on-one subtype Twos."
oh dear, I don't like this subtype either. they sound like manipulative snakes

"Social Subtype Fours focus more on their deficiencies and also on earning the understanding and appreciation of the groups to which they belong. They want understanding and appreciation for their suffering and sorrows, and desire acknowledgment for their heartfelt contributions to groups, while at the same time they often feel marginal to or not fully part of groups."
makes sense. like I said, the social and 4 needs pull at each other

"Social Subtype Fives want to find and develop strong connections with individuals who share their super-ideals, but they become disengaged when forced to live in way that is not aligned with these higher-order beliefs. They focus on the group in search of extraordinary individuals, then hoard these relationships and/or their shared ideas and, in the Five's view, superior values."
so this is basically the stereotypical tweed coat wearing British guy who spends all day drinking tea with friends while they intellectually babble for hours :D

"Self-Preservation Subtype Sevens try to create close networks of family, friends, and colleagues, not only to keep themselves feeling both stimulated and secure but also to generate new and interesting opportunities to pursue."
so true. social interaction for an Sp 7 is strictly for entertainments purposes. if we like you, we will talk to you, if you are boring, we won't

"Social Subtype Eights vigorously protect others from unjust and unfair authorities and systems and challenge social norms. At the same time, they seek power, influence, and pleasure. Wanting loyalty from others and being highly loyal themselves, they derive a feeling of power from challenging others as well as from defending those under their protection, which makes them feel less vulnerable."
I like this type :D
From here.[/QUOTE]
 

Viridian

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:doh:
you people are fucking idiots. stop telling me what I need to do and that I don't know what I'm talking about when you lack the insight to even understand what I'm talking about. if you can't at least try to understand the point I'm trying to make then shut the fuck up and sit yo ass down!

this is not directed at a single person, it directed at several people

Sorry. :(
 

Elfboy

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sx/sp
Have you actually read a book about the enneagram?

no, but I think I have the jist of it and that isn't the point. it's called irony. I'm not an idiot, I know it's more complicated than that. noticing irony does not mean I don't know what I'm talking about. surely as an Ne user you know what irony is
 

Catharsis

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INFP
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5w4
no, but I think I have the jist of it and that isn't the point. it's called irony. noticing irony does not mean I don't know what I'm talking about. surely as an Ne user you know what irony is
Yeah, I know what kind of point you wanted to make, but my point is that it isn't like that.
 

chickpea

perfect person
Joined
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Messages
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INFP
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4w5
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sp/sx
:doh:
you people are fucking idiots. stop telling me what I need to do and that I don't know what I'm talking about when you lack the insight to even understand what I'm talking about. if you can't at least try to understand the point I'm trying to make then shut the fuck up and sit yo ass down!

this is not directed at a single person, it's directed at several people

haha wow, my deepest apologies for suggesting you read a book on a subject you're interested in but grossly misinformed about. i understand what you're trying to say you're just.. wrong. i said to read a book because i have one (wisdom of the enneagram) that describes how the instinct variants blend with each enneagram type. but you're the expert i guess hahaaa
 

Elfboy

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Yeah, I know what kind of point you wanted to make, but my point is that it isn't like that.

you obviously do not understand my point. my point is that the instinct and the enneatype can pull in opposite directions in kind of a push-pull manner when they desire things that are relatively different from each other. there are plenty of examples of this
 

Catharsis

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you obviously do not understand my point. my point is that the instinct and the enneatype can pull in opposite directions in kind of a push-pull manner when they desire things that are relatively different from each other. there are plenty of examples of this
Yes, I understood that from your original post, but that is only true on a superficial level. Like chana pointed out, type and instinct blend.
 
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