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  1. #41
    brainheart
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    Oh, another great example of a social four conundrum: allen ginsberg said he never would have published howl if he'd known his father would have been able to read it. He figured, small publishing company, off my father's radar. He said he would have been too embarrassed and ashamed (all the sexual imagery and bad words). Shame is the big deal for the social four, the shame of what it entails to be different, the shame of not living up to your or others' expectations, the shame of letting others' down. So yes, it can be an awkward thing to be.

  2. #42
    Member Catharsis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    I know exactly what elf boy is talking about, actually, and I've read way too many books about the enneagram. (I'd guess around ten.)

    While you guys were arguing (unbeknownst to me) I was thinking about me and my social instinct, facing the disturbing possibility that crap, maybe it is my dominant instinct. It's a bitch and I hate it because more than anything I want to be honest and open about expressing myself but I'm overwhelmingly self- conscious (how will others react) and I don't want to insult or offend those I love aka my social group. It's not just wanting to be part of the elite crowd, we fours (like anyone) aren't so one- dimensional, but also consideration of those who matter in our lives. I think that's why social fours can often be anti-social: wanting to be unique and honest while being accepted isn't so easy. Not to mention, sure yeah, I'd love to be a part of the expats in paris or the beats or hang with current musicians, writers, etc, but I'm too freaked to try because my stuff probably isn't as good and I'm not cool enough, so it becomes this unattainable longing as I spend too much time moping on sites like this.
    This is basically what it says in the books about social fours, the question is: is this behaviour in conflict with your superego?
    INFP 5w4 Sx/So

  3. #43
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catharsis View Post
    You seem to put a lot of faith in this list since I've noticed almost all of your typings comes from here. How do you know it's accurate?
    It does seem to be his holy bible, and I can think of a couple of typings on there that seem potentially wrong. I think it's a cool list to get the gist of a type, but using it for statistical purposes seems a little.. Unscientific.

  4. #44
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catharsis View Post
    This is basically what it says in the books about social fours, the question is: is this behaviour in conflict with your superego?
    In conflict with my super ego? No, I'd say, if anything, its my superego restraining my id. (i think that's right; my freud is a little rusty.)

  5. #45
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catharsis View Post
    This is basically what it says in the books about social fours, the question is: is this behaviour in conflict with your superego?
    I don't know what a superego is, but I haven't said anything about it. I'm simply referring to instinct and ego having different desires and that attempting to fulfill both of these desires can be difficult or cause stress to a person. especially when that person is not self aware
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    In conflict with my super ego? No, I'd say, if anything, its my superego restraining my id. (i think that's right; my freud is a little rusty.)
    The superego in the enneagram is what controls your basic fear and basic desire; I actually know very little of Freud myself. But do you think your social instinct is in direct opposition of your fear of lacking identity and significance? Because I couldn't read anything like that from your post.
    INFP 5w4 Sx/So

  7. #47
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catharsis View Post
    The superego in the enneagram is what controls your basic fear and basic desire; I actually know very little of Freud myself. But do you think your social instinct is in direct opposition of your fear of lacking identity and significance? Because I couldn't read anything like that from your post.

    I don't want to speak for brainheart, but at the least this quote supports my theory
    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    Agreed there's just something weird about being a 4w5 sx/so- lots of internal conflict and contradiction, if you catch my drift. Which all totally makes sense for me. Hopefully I'll make some progress due to this insight...
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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  8. #48
    Member Catharsis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I don't want to speak for brainheart, but at the least this quote supports my theory
    Depends on what kinds of conflict and contradiction she's talking about.
    INFP 5w4 Sx/So

  9. #49
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catharsis View Post
    Depends on what kinds of conflict and contradiction she's talking about.
    I'm not talking about any kinda of contradiction or conflict, but the instinct and enneatype are obviously in some kind of conflict, that is the only point I'm trying to me
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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I'm not talking about any kinda of contradiction or conflict, but the instinct and enneatype are obviously in some kind of conflict, that is the only point I'm trying to me
    It does matter because you were talking about "ironic" conflict.
    INFP 5w4 Sx/So

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