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  1. #11
    brainheart
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    This thing you two are doing here, this is precisely what has convinced me in the past that I'm not a five. The nit-picking. No offense, but it seems silly and unnecessary to me. But is that just ti in action ?

    As far as the passions go, I do both.

  2. #12
    brainheart
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    The descriptions I was speaking of-
    Sexual Five
    when they finally found the perfect mate, they felt incredibly tied to the "idea" of their love and became a slave to that love. They described a conflict in holding the ideal and identifying with their own imperfection of being human, fearing that their human components might contaminate their love. "For people are not ideal and people can contaminate love." One example how they coped with this contradiction in terms was to hold the love in their mind or imagination where it could remain untainted. Another was to express love nonverbally with their body describing a deep, intense, wordless connection. They expressed the viewpoint that a shared intimacy is treasured and kept locked away to be experienced and revisited privately. They had difficulty trusting anyUione totally, though they described what a relief it would be to do so. Expressing love for Sexual Fives was often difficult, embarrassing, blinding, and controlling. They tended to emphasize nonverbal connection and sexual expression, describing that the greatest intimacy is a complete wordless understanding, though they sometimes had difficulty understanding both verbal and nonverbal, as well as physical ways of relating (summarized; lot of contradictory information?). They both sought total merging, yet were simultaneously terrified of it. They emphasized the issue of trust, sometimes trusting people at a distance but becoming reserved and closed off when they came nearer, emphasizing the need to protect themselves and to keep secrets from their intimates. They felt that intimate family members were threatening and made the greatest demands of all. In general, Sexual Fives were characterized by brief periods of intense connection and reclusive secrecy.

    Self-Preservational Five The Self-Preservational Five explained that the need to isolate and reduce needs is due to the fear of not having enough personal resources or otherwise to give back. The strategy to require very little, to "hold in and hold on," was the simplest way to survive, for if they did receive something there would be an expectation to reciprocate. Therefore, they would rather have very few things to deal with that could control them. However, to go without and still desire the good things in life tormented them. They shared that they felt sad and deprived forgoing some of life's greatest pleasures to have freedom from the constriction and needs of others. They embodied the idea that "my home is my sanctuary," a place away from noise and pressure and needed a great deal of separate, private, personal space. They wanted to minimize all of their entanglements and obligations, but became involved in a cycle of boredom and wanting to recreate involvements and make commitments.

  3. #13
    Junior Member Shade's Avatar
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    Uh, I can attest to the truth of these statements. I've tested as a 5w4, and everything that's been said in this thread about Fives describes me to a T. Maybe it's not true of all Fives, but it surely is true of this one.

  4. #14
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    Maybe you're a Five?

    Don't label yourself as a Four because you're "sensitive" or lack confidence or have a poor self-image - it's an easy thing to do, and anyone can suffer from those things. Fours are defined by their passion (keyword: PASSION!) for envy and emotional outpourings.
    Remember that 4s are a withdrawn type. "Emotional outpourings" are misunderstood for this type, as if they go around telling everyone how they feel all the time in a big dramatic scene (if that's true, I am not a 4). 4s are likely to be moody, but not hysterical. Emotional, dramatic displays for the 4 tend to be in the realm of art or some other chosen outlet that is not direct (one profile "whether it be in the clothes they wear or in the overall nature of their often idiosyncratic lifestyles."). 4w5s especially may intellectualize their feelings a lot.

    I've seen plenty of 2s & 7s, for example, appear far more emotionally dramatic in person than many 4s.

    However, I have read that 5s are more likely to mistype as 4s than 4s as 5s. If you're seriously considering 5 & are just stuck on a few minor details, then maybe 5 is the better fit.

    I typed this up on another forum....it may or may not help. It's in regards to general observations of INFP 4s & 5s (not INTPs or T types).

    A few noted differences between 4s & 5s:

    - 5s seem more cryptic in their speech & expressions
    - 5s seem to speak more tersely/briefly. 4s seem more long-winded & prone to poetic flourishes
    - Both a 4w5 & 5w4 will intellectualize their emotions at time to deal with them (instead of amplifying them outwardly like a 4w3), but a 5 will do it more or to a greater degree
    - Both like dark stuff, but 4s will romanticize it more, whereas 5s may just like it as purely gritty
    - 4s tend to be more relationship-oriented, and may express their empathy more readily. Moving towards 1 at an integration point, they'll have moral ideals they strive for, which prompts them to take a personal interest in people (listen to them, show compassion, commiserate) . Of course, any stable human will be empathetic, but 5s seem less people-focused.
    - Integrating at 8, 5s tend to be more goal-oriented, striving to truly master something instead of just taking in knowledge.
    - INFP 5s seem to report less that people come to them for emotional support or personal advice; 4s & 9s seem to report this more
    - 5s can have deep emotions & be artistic too, and they're supposedly more likely to mistype as a 4 than vice versa.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  5. #15
    jump sleuthiness's Avatar
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    Type the people you know, then rewrite the descriptions you've accumulated.

    I say this everytime though.

    Be more specific?

    thinking of you

  6. #16
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    This thing you two are doing here, this is precisely what has convinced me in the past that I'm not a five. The nit-picking. No offense, but it seems silly and unnecessary to me. But is that just ti in action ?

    As far as the passions go, I do both.
    Nit-picking? None of that going on, I assure you. But if it seems like nit-picking to you, then you might be right. :p
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  7. #17
    brainheart
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    Thanks, orange. You are always helpful.

    Check on:
    Cryptic
    Brief
    (unsure if I intellectualize to a greater degree than a four or less than five.)
    Romanticize dark things sometimes, like lost, unrequited love or being in a deep depression, suicidal, etc. (even though I truly don't want to go there again there's something seductive about it). Some dark things I just find fascinating, like the scope of human evil: the holocaust, serial killers, people who smother their babies, for example. I want to understand where this comes from, how it is possible (i can't even step on an insect).

    Relationship oriented, but also love being alone, don't want to work in a service oriented, team, people-focused job. I get tired of being around people pretty quickly.
    Closer to 1 than 8.
    Not many people come to me for advice.
    Indirect expression of emotion.

    Didn't intend for this to be a type me thread, just was curious about the contradiction between my type and the instinct descriptions...

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    Some dark things I just find fascinating, like the scope of human evil: the holocaust, serial killers, people who smother their babies, for example. I want to understand where this comes from, how it is possible (i can't even step on an insect).
    MASSIVE derail intended only for brainheart. Other people are welcome to read (otherwise I'd PM.../I can't stop you anyway) but I'm starting with this note and putting it behind spoilers to signify it's totally offtopic and I don't want to derail the thread with this.


  9. #19
    brainheart
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    If I read the wisdom of the enneagram type questions, the four ones pretty much sing to me while the five ones are more ' well, yeah... I guess.' Also at the lowest levels much more of a four. (although ocean moonshine descriptions I'd say 51% 5/ 49% 4... Hmm...) This, however, doesn't reconcile the fact that as far as the instinctual variant descriptions go sxsp five is where it's at.

    Are the four variant descriptions just bad or what?

  10. #20
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    If I read the wisdom of the enneagram type questions, the four ones pretty much sing to me while the five ones are more ' well, yeah... I guess.' Also at the lowest levels much more of a four. (although ocean moonshine descriptions I'd say 51% 5/ 49% 4... Hmm...) This, however, doesn't reconcile the fact that as far as the instinctual variant descriptions go sxsp five is where it's at.

    Are the four variant descriptions just bad or what?
    I wonder the same thing. The description for type four overall sounds slightly better to me, and it's the same with the levels. But I don't identify at all with the instinctual variants for type four. Maybe something's missing, maybe we're not fulling understanding this, or maybe we're we're just right on the border of 4 and 5. If we were, what would we call ourselves? e4½?

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