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  1. #11
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I honestly don't relate to any of them. It's probably that I don't relate even REMOTELY with the hyper-traditional language they use in these descriptions - "nurturing figure", "patriarchy" - and the assumption that you need everyone in your family to fulfill a particular "role" in order to be well-adjusted. I felt no need to make a niche for myself; why wouldn't I fit in to my family?

    But then again, I grew up in a happy and loving household, and if you related a lot to the descriptions of fours and fives, you may not have felt as accepted as I did. So, I get the feeling that these descriptions do a great job of describing dysfunctional childhoods, but not happy ones - which is why I don't relate to any of them. Not only did I connect a lot with both of my parents (be they "nurturing" or "protective" - and god do I hate those terms. Both of my parents are both nurturing and protective) - but they were my friends. I related to the one on the other site because, even though my parents weren't demanding or dominating (as the description states), I would take every request they had of me as an order, because I cared about pleasing them and doing right by them. In that way, I guess I might relate most to the descriptions you posted of twos, sixes, and nines, because those were the only ones who connected with their parents naturally without having to force a connection - but not because I relate to the effects of that parenting on the twos/sixes/nines.
    Yeah, it might be helpful to go for the gist. Seems like you might be getting a little caught up in the language. I have a 1w9 dad and 1w2 mom so believe me I know about ones getting caught up in language.

    My parents love me, that was never a question. I just always felt disconnected from them. I'm the youngest of six kids and although I had moments of bonding with my family, its never lasted. I feel like this wholly separate entity. I moved away as soon as I could, tossed aside their values as soon as I could. We're amicable and all, but I'm a 36 year old woman who feels like a insecure teenager whenever I'm around my parents. Seems slightly unhealthy. Sometimes I try to open up to them, tell them what I'm up to, but everything for them is something moral or a cause and so they think I'm self absorbed and I think they need to loosen up, think for themselves for a change. And there you have it.

  2. #12
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I relate much more to this:
    Very cool site. On those parent-child things, the one for 7 matches pretty well and the best of the 9. Perhaps because it was more positive and not as focused on how exactly I was 'harmed'?
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  3. #13
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    Yeah, it might be helpful to go for the gist. Seems like you might be getting a little caught up in the language. I have a 1w9 dad and 1w2 mom so believe me I know about ones getting caught up in language.
    Well, to be fair, I also said earlier that my family was characterized by strong authority and not weak authority. But you're right - a lot of my response came from gut-instinct righteous indignation-filled Fi

    My parents love me, that was never a question. I just always felt disconnected from them. I'm the youngest of six kids and although I had moments of bonding with my family, its never lasted. I feel like this wholly separate entity. I moved away as soon as I could, tossed aside their values as soon as I could. We're amicable and all, but I'm a 36 year old woman who feels like a insecure teenager whenever I'm around my parents. Seems slightly unhealthy. Sometimes I try to open up to them, tell them what I'm up to, but everything for them is something moral or a cause and so they think I'm self absorbed and I think they need to loosen up, think for themselves for a change. And there you have it.

    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    Very cool site. On those parent-child things, the one for 7 matches pretty well and the best of the 9. Perhaps because it was more positive and not as focused on how exactly I was 'harmed'?
    Definitely! I also related to the 7 one because of what you said and because I have a lot of 7 qualities I definitely attribute those aspects of me to the fun-loving side of my family dynamic
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  4. #14
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Well, I do essentially match the prediction for Fives -- I'm ambivalent to both my parents. (By rights, I should even hate my father, and other people who had to deal with what I did typically do, but I honestly don't, regardless of the issues; I'm just ambivalent.) I can look at my parents and see their good and bad qualities and choices; and I can even judge their behavior; and I can see parts of themselves in me and vice versa and accept that; but I don't feel particularly invested in the outcome of those relationships. It's just an assessment and awareness, but little more. And meanwhile, I find myself ambivalent to them being in my life. If they were both to die tomorrow, I would feel sad in terms of how I feel sad for death and the loss of people in general, but my life would pretty much continue as it has been. My parents were never role models or figures I aspired to be.

    (Put another way, I think I would mourn -- and currently miss -- more the loss of connected parental archetypes in my life than I would the loss of my two specific parental figures.)

    Basically, my mom was codependent, and my father emotionally abusive, so I detached myself from both; neither one got inside, nor really understood me the times they got inside anyway. I kept them distant from me, but I never completely rejected them; I just remain detached.

    I looked at the Nine as well. Nine's are connected with both parents, which for me is not the best description. But I did project myself into both of my parents heads and molded my external behavior to keep the relationships safe and smooth as possible. I just never gave them everything they wanted, I just gave them stuff on the surface to keep the conflict away and keep things pleasant between us... as much as I could.

    But it was still enough to cause identity issues for me, as described for Nines in that same page, and having to reclaim myself later in life...

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    So, I get the feeling that these descriptions do a great job of describing dysfunctional childhoods, but not happy ones - which is why I don't relate to any of them.
    Well, that's not really surprising, considering they are trying to define enneagram type as a response to the parental/authority figures in one's development. A stronger impetus brings a stronger response, and personality is more explicit and intense the stronger that the dysfunctional influence is. We see dysfunctionality in other systems like MBTI also seeming to evoke stronger expressions of personality, since some of the personality is channeled into defense mechanisms and the more vulnerable sides of the personality could not be developed. The safer / more rounded the environment is, the more rounded the child tends to become, and the less distinct of a personality at first one might seem to be.

    I also have concerns about the parental attachment thing in that it seems to have been added after the fact, rather than organically moving into the nine types. So it's a case of backtracking, assuming that we can somehow "make everything fit," so they come up with nine permutations of parent/child connection and then just play the matching game... but there was never really any certainty that the nine enneagram types truly and exclusively exist, or that the nine parent/child pathways exclusively exist.

    My third concern about these styles is that they assume the parent is driving them, without seeming to note that inherently the response comes from a place within the child. Specifically, the same pattern of parental behavior can be indulged in... but the child's response will actually differ based (logically) on the existing differences in personality among all of those children. This is why two kids can grow up in almost identical environments, yet one will be unfazed by the problems and the other might be severely disturbed. So if I am ambivalent to my parents, it's not necessarily 100% based on my parents' behavior, it's because my natural response to behavior like my parents was already to detach. They didn't make me ambivalent, they just exposed my natural ambivalence.
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  5. #15
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    This will sound very confusing so please forgive me for my writing in advance.


    My mom(whom I think is a type 2), I have always loved and has always been around me, but I do not know if I would be specifically connected with her... When I was young I always cared for her and I never wanted to upset/disappoint her but I felt like she was the opposite of me. She was very outgoing and aggressive while I was more calm and somewhat too nice. Although she would occasionally snap at someone for either offending her directly or hurting me... she was still mostly loving (albeit not disciplining me as much as my step father...) but after a car wreck, she had a lot more mood swings due to diabetes. I sometimes feel as if I cannot tell her anything out of fear of her reaction. It was never her fault due to her frontal cortex being damaged making her more emotionally unstable and her diabetes. As a result, her occasional rage would increase as how many time she would snap at someone and would provoke others. I would say maybe neutral since I was never disconnected?

    My Real dad(I am guessing is a type 7 or 3?) I sort of felt ambivalent about. I also did not dislike him, however I never respected what he would do. He was a con-artist, a womanizer, a veteran and very transient. I would feel like he tried very hard to please me yet equally would be strict and uncompromising disciplining me physically but never abusively... Due to my habit of spilling out his secrets to his girlfriends I would commonly get trouble for that. He would take me occasionally every weekend but most times I would prefer to stay with my mother and step father. My Real Dad also was very impressed by my older step siblings due to their strength and being popular (having trophies and such) but I felt weaker compared to them or less talented.. I wanted to feel impressive which never worked. after refusing to live with him when my mom had difficulties with my...identity and personal information, he slowly just stopped contacting me. I was notified 17 year old that he may have cancer which caused concern until I found out that it was false or a misconception. I confronted him as soon as I found out and later when I found him one day in my city, he was dating a woman 4 YEARS older than me which (I am sorry if its rude) disgusted me... He asked me for money that took him a while to pay back because he told me he was homeless... I slowly began to see him as a con artist that only wants money. My step father became to criminal and was released from jail. The times I saw him, he was living with my grandfather who was sick... I think that he genuinely cared but he would typically discuss money related matters while also trying to spend time with me at the same time. I thought he changed, due recent close deaths, but after he causally described my grandfather's death that I did not know about until after the funeral, forgot the name of the woman he loved that died, discussed the will and asked for MONEY AGAIN, I just feel sickened at him for that.

    My step dad however I feared/respected but eventually loathe. He was more of a real dad than my biological father but I still refused to call him my dad on official terms. As A child I was scared to follow and obey him because he was very authoritative and I was fairly timid so it did not take much for him to get me to listen to him. He would always be a neat freak and criticize me and my mom for being lazy slobs in his eyes and would completely mess up my room and make me clean it in which I disliked about him. Whenever he would learn anything close about my sexuality, he would in some way or another attack me. After he left my mom, use her , verbally abuse her, cheating on her with her greatest enemy, pitting them against each other, physically threatening/abusing her from when I was 14 years old and just finally ended the cheating last year, I completely hate him and his arrogance! He would talk about morals and being honorable but those same values he betrays. I would want him to leave my mom, but my mom loves him so much he cant and he constantly carps and rebukes her for no reason making her feel like trash every time he is drunk. He criticized me more for my laziness, me not working while I go to school, rashly assuming I would not pay money once I have it, hoarding journals, keeping books, being scared of cats, being passive, being uptight, being apologetic, not eating enough. I know he cared for me more but I contempt how he treats my mom and treats others while believing himself to be a blessing.

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