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  1. #11
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    Originally posted by Viridian
    A tip: the Cowardly Lion from The Wizard of Oz is a very good movie example of Sixish phobic and counterphobic strategies. While the Lion wants the Wizard to give him the gift of courage (Sixes can be insecure and overly dependent on authority figures), it soon becomes clear that he can act counterphobic when detecting danger - Sixes can resemble Eights in their protectiveness.
    That's a good way of looking at, great example. I mean typically I wouldn't want to face danger (although I imagine doing so a lot), but if I need to I'm more than ready to let my emotions take control and be offensive. Just like a lion, meow! :3

    The phobic strategy runs the risk of thinking too much and being paralyzed into inaction and paranoia; the counterphobic one runs the risk of "charging ahead" without thinking due to fear of being subjugated or oppressed by an external threat before vanquishing it.
    Kinda reminds me of the colors of blue and red in Magic the Gathering...

    I kinda hope I was somewhat helpful here... I'm still in the process of figuring out my tritype.
    Relax, you were more then helpful (and I'm more than willing to help you with your tri-type )

  2. #12
    Senior Member Thunderbringer's Avatar
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    If you're still having trouble, keep in mind that all types have counter passions, its just the sixes that stick out the most.
    We cast away priceless time in dreams, born of imagination, fed upon illusion, and put to death by reality. - Judy Garland

  3. #13
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    Originally posted by Thunderbringer
    If you're still having trouble, keep in mind that all types have counter passions, its just the sixes that stick out the most.
    Huh, I did not know that. Where could I possible find a source that describes all the counter types in detail?

  4. #14
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    it sounds like being a counterphobic 6 would be extremely stressful with that constant pull of fear on one end and courage, daring and rebellion on the other end. I think integrating to the growth is strongly beneficial for all types, but especially 6s

    1 to 7: able to finally eat the cake they spend such an inordinate amount of time baking. ie, able to enjoy the fruits of their labor and realize that life isn't 100% work
    2 to 4: able to realize their own feelings and work towards more win/win situations as opposed to altruism
    3 to 6: able to fit in with their friends instead of competing constantly competing with them and trying to 1 up them
    4 to 1: the creative nature of the 4 becomes more organized and productive, allowing the 4 to do more of what they really enjoy (art, self expression etc)
    5 to 8: compelled to do something with their ideas and competency
    6 to 9: able to relax and find peace
    7 to 5: able to thing ahead and plan better, which eventually allows them more recources to be spontaneous and adventurous
    8 to 2: able to open and be affectionate and loving. not EVERYONE is the world is out to get you
    9 to 3: the realization that happiness is NOT 100% internal and that they need some amount of material success to be happy and healthy

  5. #15
    Senior Member Thunderbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Idealist View Post
    Huh, I did not know that. Where could I possible find a source that describes all the counter types in detail?
    The link to the original site is gone, but here's the info from it:

    "People are expressing their counterpassion if they are:
    1 …living in their passion;
    2 …not conscious of their passion and denying it openly;
    3 …behaving in a manner contrary to the attitude which would be induced by their passion;
    4 …attaching a positive value to these behaviors. They may confuse counterpassion and integration, especially if they know the Enneagram and assume these behaviors resemble the virtue aspect of their type.

    The Counterpassions of Each Type
    Some brief examples of the counterpassions of the nine Enneagram types.



    One: Renouncement
    The passion of Ones is anger. The counterpassion of Ones is a caricature of the virtue of patience; in these moments, Ones want to be tolerant, neutral, and objective. They let others get away with errors. They think they are indulgent, magnanimous and understanding of others. Nevertheless, Ones notice errors, which shows that they are still being judgmental. Anger bubbles up inside them even if they are not aware of it. Ones' counterpassion is close to, if not equivalent to, its principal defense mechanism, reaction-formation, and consequently is one of the most thoroughly discussed counterpassions in classic type descriptions.

    Two: Self-effacing
    The passion of Twos is pride. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of humility. In these moments, Twos want to keep themselves in the background and say that they are nothing much. For example, they might affirm that their assistance was only a small act of helpfulness among many others. They can also insist that what others bring to them is richer than their contribution, or that the love they give does not come from them, that they are merely a channel for love. Pride is there, of course, and the Twos did nothing but refocus the attention: it is not about being proud of the assistance that they bring, but of their false humility.

    Three: Self-restraint
    The passion of Threes is deceit. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of truth in which Threes try to appear reserved and discrete. When in counterpassion, Threes do not exhibit their achievements or they down-play them; they center their attention and their interest on the other. Threes may consider themselves shy, or others may perceive them as shy. In reality, this reserved approach regarding success and competence is an unconscious action to lower expectations and thereby avoid failure, or minimize its possible effects.

    Four: Self-sufficiency
    The passion of Fours is envy. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of contentment. At that time, Fours want to appear self-sufficient. They claim to be satisfied with who they are and what they have. What others have that they lack is hence useless, devoid of interest and they are happy to do without. In French literature, there is a famous fable, by Jean de La Fontaine, that describes the counterpassion of the Four and reveals a transparent haughtiness and the persistence of envy.

    The Fox and the Grapes
    (Book III, fable 11)
    Translated by Norman B. Spector

    A certain Gascon Fox, a Norman one others say,
    Famished, saw on a trellis, up high to his chagrin,
    Grapes, clearly ripe that day,
    And all covered with purple skin.
    The rogue would have had a meal for the gods,
    But, having tried to reach them in vain,
    "They're too green," he said, "and just suitable for clods."

    Didn't he do better than to complain?

    Five: Extravagance
    The passion of Fives is avarice. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of unselfishness. Then Fives want to appear generous. They will give an enormous amount of information about their subject of interest, holding mini-conferences about almost any situation. Avarice is there, however, because they manage to give this information to people who do not desire it and, thus, inevitably will not understand it or use it. Sometimes Fives unconsciously give subtly incomplete or veiled answers.

    Six: Temerity
    The passion of Sixes is fear. The counterpassion is a overcompensation from fear. In these situations, Sixes are harsh; they aggressively face dangers. This is the counterphobic Six so often described in Enneagram literature.

    Seven: Austerity
    The passion of Sevens is gluttony. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of sobriety or temperance. Sevens may then practice excessive self-control. They want to appear to be serious. They don't allow themselves any joy or rest. They limit their mental capacities, by either underusing them or focalizing them too much. They are proud of this seriousness that gives them a sort of masochistic happiness. The passion of gluttony appears as an excess of control. More is better: the battle cry of Sevens is still present, only now its focus has changed.

    Eight: Waryness
    The passion of Eights is excess and the counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of simplicity. In which case, Eights want to appear careful, measured and decent. They are reticent, hold back their anger; and may choose an ascetic way of life. However, even in these circumstances, Eights continue to go to extremes. An excess of simplicity is still excess. In Eights, the passion-counterpassion duality resembles Ichazo's term for the Eight's dichotomy, hedonist-puritan.

    Nine: Hyperactivity
    The passion of Nines is sloth and the counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of activity. Nines are then hyperactive, perpetually agitated and overloaded with tasks. Although they often produce quantities of work effectively, idleness is still present: these activities are practical but have the effect that the more Nines do, the more they forget themselves. This counterpassion is one of the first we observed, and we interpreted it at the time that these Nines use work and activities as a means of narcotisation (their principal defense mechanism).
    An even more subtle form of Nine's counterpassion is a hyperactive pursuit personal development. Such Nines devour books, workshops, therapists, and gurus. They profess to thirst after self-knowledge; however, they end up spinning their wheels, changing nothing.

    Source: http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/fo...TOPIC_ID=15537
    We cast away priceless time in dreams, born of imagination, fed upon illusion, and put to death by reality. - Judy Garland

  6. #16
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbringer View Post
    awesome stuff
    I think I love you You've just made so many things slot into place in my head.
    Hello

  7. #17
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    That's very interesting info, Thunderbringer! Thanks for sharing!

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    it sounds like being a counterphobic 6 would be extremely stressful with that constant pull of fear on one end and courage, daring and rebellion on the other end. I think integrating to the growth is strongly beneficial for all types, but especially 6s

    1 to 7: able to finally eat the cake they spend such an inordinate amount of time baking. ie, able to enjoy the fruits of their labor and realize that life isn't 100% work
    2 to 4: able to realize their own feelings and work towards more win/win situations as opposed to altruism
    3 to 6: able to fit in with their friends instead of competing constantly competing with them and trying to 1 up them
    4 to 1: the creative nature of the 4 becomes more organized and productive, allowing the 4 to do more of what they really enjoy (art, self expression etc)
    5 to 8: compelled to do something with their ideas and competency
    6 to 9: able to relax and find peace
    7 to 5: able to thing ahead and plan better, which eventually allows them more recources to be spontaneous and adventurous
    8 to 2: able to open and be affectionate and loving. not EVERYONE is the world is out to get you
    9 to 3: the realization that happiness is NOT 100% internal and that they need some amount of material success to be happy and healthy
    That's also very interesting, Elfboy! I saw some of these a little differently, though:

    2->4 - They stop "butting in" every time someone doesn't seem happy and lets them introspect at leisure, being more moderate and less controlling with their assistance
    4->1 - Their passion becomes more focused on external things; they "get out of their heads" and express convictions and values, becoming outspoken advocates (their love of "fringe" society members becomes active defense of their rights, for example)
    8->2 - Becomes less of a lone wolf, attitude toward others becomes equally passionate yet non-adversarial; come to find weakness less loathsome and more endearing
    9->3 - Go less with the flow, work on being more ambitious, turns their inner peace into active passion; become more attuned to their environment, ceasing to find the world so chaotic and undesirable

  8. #18
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post
    Many sixes will swing back and forth between the two extremes but tend to lean more towards one side or another. SX subtype seems more likely to be counterphobic than the SP or SO 6.
    That's an interesting idea. Not a Six; but my experience is that I can be very phobic, yet often make conscious choices (not subconscious ones) under the direction of my intellectual awareness to act in counterphobic ways because I know that acting in a phobic way will derail my personal growth and success.

    Thanks to everyone posting in this thread, the information's been really interesting.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #19
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    Originally posted by Thunderbringer
    The link to the original site is gone, but here's the info from it:

    "People are expressing their counterpassion if they are:
    1 …living in their passion;
    2 …not conscious of their passion and denying it openly;
    3 …behaving in a manner contrary to the attitude which would be induced by their passion;
    4 …attaching a positive value to these behaviors. They may confuse counterpassion and integration, especially if they know the Enneagram and assume these behaviors resemble the virtue aspect of their type.

    The Counterpassions of Each Type
    Some brief examples of the counterpassions of the nine Enneagram types.



    One: Renouncement
    The passion of Ones is anger. The counterpassion of Ones is a caricature of the virtue of patience; in these moments, Ones want to be tolerant, neutral, and objective. They let others get away with errors. They think they are indulgent, magnanimous and understanding of others. Nevertheless, Ones notice errors, which shows that they are still being judgmental. Anger bubbles up inside them even if they are not aware of it. Ones' counterpassion is close to, if not equivalent to, its principal defense mechanism, reaction-formation, and consequently is one of the most thoroughly discussed counterpassions in classic type descriptions.

    Two: Self-effacing
    The passion of Twos is pride. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of humility. In these moments, Twos want to keep themselves in the background and say that they are nothing much. For example, they might affirm that their assistance was only a small act of helpfulness among many others. They can also insist that what others bring to them is richer than their contribution, or that the love they give does not come from them, that they are merely a channel for love. Pride is there, of course, and the Twos did nothing but refocus the attention: it is not about being proud of the assistance that they bring, but of their false humility.

    Three: Self-restraint
    The passion of Threes is deceit. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of truth in which Threes try to appear reserved and discrete. When in counterpassion, Threes do not exhibit their achievements or they down-play them; they center their attention and their interest on the other. Threes may consider themselves shy, or others may perceive them as shy. In reality, this reserved approach regarding success and competence is an unconscious action to lower expectations and thereby avoid failure, or minimize its possible effects.

    Four: Self-sufficiency
    The passion of Fours is envy. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of contentment. At that time, Fours want to appear self-sufficient. They claim to be satisfied with who they are and what they have. What others have that they lack is hence useless, devoid of interest and they are happy to do without. In French literature, there is a famous fable, by Jean de La Fontaine, that describes the counterpassion of the Four and reveals a transparent haughtiness and the persistence of envy.

    The Fox and the Grapes
    (Book III, fable 11)
    Translated by Norman B. Spector

    A certain Gascon Fox, a Norman one others say,
    Famished, saw on a trellis, up high to his chagrin,
    Grapes, clearly ripe that day,
    And all covered with purple skin.
    The rogue would have had a meal for the gods,
    But, having tried to reach them in vain,
    "They're too green," he said, "and just suitable for clods."

    Didn't he do better than to complain?

    Five: Extravagance
    The passion of Fives is avarice. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of unselfishness. Then Fives want to appear generous. They will give an enormous amount of information about their subject of interest, holding mini-conferences about almost any situation. Avarice is there, however, because they manage to give this information to people who do not desire it and, thus, inevitably will not understand it or use it. Sometimes Fives unconsciously give subtly incomplete or veiled answers.

    Six: Temerity
    The passion of Sixes is fear. The counterpassion is a overcompensation from fear. In these situations, Sixes are harsh; they aggressively face dangers. This is the counterphobic Six so often described in Enneagram literature.

    Seven: Austerity
    The passion of Sevens is gluttony. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of sobriety or temperance. Sevens may then practice excessive self-control. They want to appear to be serious. They don't allow themselves any joy or rest. They limit their mental capacities, by either underusing them or focalizing them too much. They are proud of this seriousness that gives them a sort of masochistic happiness. The passion of gluttony appears as an excess of control. More is better: the battle cry of Sevens is still present, only now its focus has changed.

    Eight: Waryness
    The passion of Eights is excess and the counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of simplicity. In which case, Eights want to appear careful, measured and decent. They are reticent, hold back their anger; and may choose an ascetic way of life. However, even in these circumstances, Eights continue to go to extremes. An excess of simplicity is still excess. In Eights, the passion-counterpassion duality resembles Ichazo's term for the Eight's dichotomy, hedonist-puritan.

    Nine: Hyperactivity
    The passion of Nines is sloth and the counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of activity. Nines are then hyperactive, perpetually agitated and overloaded with tasks. Although they often produce quantities of work effectively, idleness is still present: these activities are practical but have the effect that the more Nines do, the more they forget themselves. This counterpassion is one of the first we observed, and we interpreted it at the time that these Nines use work and activities as a means of narcotisation (their principal defense mechanism).
    An even more subtle form of Nine's counterpassion is a hyperactive pursuit personal development. Such Nines devour books, workshops, therapists, and gurus. They profess to thirst after self-knowledge; however, they end up spinning their wheels, changing nothing.
    Thank you for posting this

  10. #20
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbringer View Post
    The link to the original site is gone, but here's the info from it:

    "People are expressing their counterpassion if they are:
    1 …living in their passion;
    2 …not conscious of their passion and denying it openly;
    3 …behaving in a manner contrary to the attitude which would be induced by their passion;
    4 …attaching a positive value to these behaviors. They may confuse counterpassion and integration, especially if they know the Enneagram and assume these behaviors resemble the virtue aspect of their type.

    The Counterpassions of Each Type
    Some brief examples of the counterpassions of the nine Enneagram types.



    One: Renouncement
    The passion of Ones is anger. The counterpassion of Ones is a caricature of the virtue of patience; in these moments, Ones want to be tolerant, neutral, and objective. They let others get away with errors. They think they are indulgent, magnanimous and understanding of others. Nevertheless, Ones notice errors, which shows that they are still being judgmental. Anger bubbles up inside them even if they are not aware of it. Ones' counterpassion is close to, if not equivalent to, its principal defense mechanism, reaction-formation, and consequently is one of the most thoroughly discussed counterpassions in classic type descriptions.

    Two: Self-effacing
    The passion of Twos is pride. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of humility. In these moments, Twos want to keep themselves in the background and say that they are nothing much. For example, they might affirm that their assistance was only a small act of helpfulness among many others. They can also insist that what others bring to them is richer than their contribution, or that the love they give does not come from them, that they are merely a channel for love. Pride is there, of course, and the Twos did nothing but refocus the attention: it is not about being proud of the assistance that they bring, but of their false humility.

    Three: Self-restraint
    The passion of Threes is deceit. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of truth in which Threes try to appear reserved and discrete. When in counterpassion, Threes do not exhibit their achievements or they down-play them; they center their attention and their interest on the other. Threes may consider themselves shy, or others may perceive them as shy. In reality, this reserved approach regarding success and competence is an unconscious action to lower expectations and thereby avoid failure, or minimize its possible effects.

    Four: Self-sufficiency
    The passion of Fours is envy. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of contentment. At that time, Fours want to appear self-sufficient. They claim to be satisfied with who they are and what they have. What others have that they lack is hence useless, devoid of interest and they are happy to do without. In French literature, there is a famous fable, by Jean de La Fontaine, that describes the counterpassion of the Four and reveals a transparent haughtiness and the persistence of envy.

    The Fox and the Grapes
    (Book III, fable 11)
    Translated by Norman B. Spector

    A certain Gascon Fox, a Norman one others say,
    Famished, saw on a trellis, up high to his chagrin,
    Grapes, clearly ripe that day,
    And all covered with purple skin.
    The rogue would have had a meal for the gods,
    But, having tried to reach them in vain,
    "They're too green," he said, "and just suitable for clods."

    Didn't he do better than to complain?

    Five: Extravagance
    The passion of Fives is avarice. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of unselfishness. Then Fives want to appear generous. They will give an enormous amount of information about their subject of interest, holding mini-conferences about almost any situation. Avarice is there, however, because they manage to give this information to people who do not desire it and, thus, inevitably will not understand it or use it. Sometimes Fives unconsciously give subtly incomplete or veiled answers.

    Six: Temerity
    The passion of Sixes is fear. The counterpassion is a overcompensation from fear. In these situations, Sixes are harsh; they aggressively face dangers. This is the counterphobic Six so often described in Enneagram literature.

    Seven: Austerity
    The passion of Sevens is gluttony. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of sobriety or temperance. Sevens may then practice excessive self-control. They want to appear to be serious. They don't allow themselves any joy or rest. They limit their mental capacities, by either underusing them or focalizing them too much. They are proud of this seriousness that gives them a sort of masochistic happiness. The passion of gluttony appears as an excess of control. More is better: the battle cry of Sevens is still present, only now its focus has changed.

    Eight: Waryness
    The passion of Eights is excess and the counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of simplicity. In which case, Eights want to appear careful, measured and decent. They are reticent, hold back their anger; and may choose an ascetic way of life. However, even in these circumstances, Eights continue to go to extremes. An excess of simplicity is still excess. In Eights, the passion-counterpassion duality resembles Ichazo's term for the Eight's dichotomy, hedonist-puritan.

    Nine: Hyperactivity
    The passion of Nines is sloth and the counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of activity. Nines are then hyperactive, perpetually agitated and overloaded with tasks. Although they often produce quantities of work effectively, idleness is still present: these activities are practical but have the effect that the more Nines do, the more they forget themselves. This counterpassion is one of the first we observed, and we interpreted it at the time that these Nines use work and activities as a means of narcotisation (their principal defense mechanism).
    An even more subtle form of Nine's counterpassion is a hyperactive pursuit personal development. Such Nines devour books, workshops, therapists, and gurus. They profess to thirst after self-knowledge; however, they end up spinning their wheels, changing nothing.

    Source: http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/fo...TOPIC_ID=15537
    this is really good. why is the enneagram so good at pointing out the fucked up, obnoxious stuff you don't even realize you're doing?

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