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  1. #21
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    Interesting... I suppose there are multiple routes to an outcome.

    I wonder how they came about this information...
    Yeah, me too. I don't know. It makes my head spin. There's a lot in the 3/5 that I relate to, too. I'm finding this more confusing than helpful.

    It's not like anyone's parenting styles are static. I definitely run the full gamut. I try to be primarily responsive, but sometimes I'm definitely neutral, while sometimes I overreact in an active sort of way. Same goes for my kids. I'd say my daughter is a toss-up between active and responsive, while my son is neutral-responsive.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    I just re-read the active child and neutral parent thing....yep that's pretty much how it went for me growing up.
    "To find beauty in loss, hope in darkness."

  3. #23
    Senior Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    Yeah, me too. I don't know. It makes my head spin. There's a lot in the 3/5 that I relate to, too. I'm finding this more confusing than helpful.

    It's not like anyone's parenting styles are static. I definitely run the full gamut. I try to be primarily responsive, but sometimes I'm definitely neutral, while sometimes I overreact in an active sort of way. Same goes for my kids. I'd say my daughter is a toss-up between active and responsive, while my son is neutral-responsive.
    Yeah I think there's more to it than what was written.
    "To find beauty in loss, hope in darkness."

  4. #24
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Active child vs. Neutral parent
    This scenario is thought to produce Enneagram type 4

    In this relationship, the child usually tries to grab the attention of an indifferent or absent parent, by expressing himself with increasing intensity, until a response is achieved. The Active child may act in a dramatic, exaggerated manner, attempting to get his message across to the unconcerned caretaker. The Neutral caretaker will typically ignore the child's emotional needs, making the youngster feel frustrated, misunderstood and possibly abandoned. Sometimes the child turns these negative feelings inwardly, believing that they are unlovable and not special enough to deserve attention.

    This scenario teaches the Active children that they are different than other children that seem to be getting the support they lack. They want to make themselves heard so they amplify their feelings, resorting to dramatic expressions of their emotions. These children may later become overly sensitive, artistic and theatrical, but also melancholic, self-loathing and depressive.
    So, Sunshine, you agree this rings a bell with you then?

    Neutral child vs. Active parent
    This scenario is thought to produce Enneagram type 9

    The Neutral child is often overwhelmed and frightened by the controlling, domineering Active parent. Lacking self-assertion skills, he prefers to withdraw and stay out of the way, minimizing his own needs and avoiding the parent as much as possible. On the few occasions the child reaches out to the caretaker, he ends up feeling rejected and bullied around for no apparent reason, which causes him to withdraw again.
    The loneliness, however, also feels like rejection and soon enough the youngster will be ambivalent towards both being alone and being with others.

    Most of the time, a compromise will be made. This type will seek out company but will not invest themselves in it, preferring to keep in the background and go with the flow, partly removed from their actual situation. When alone, they will avoid introspection, which will bring about old feelings of depression and rejection, instead they'd rather numb themselves out with food, TV or other unimportant routines to avoid emotional pain.

    Neutral child vs. Responsive parent
    This scenario is thought to produce Enneagram type 5

    In this relationship, the Responsive parent is inclined to give a lot of unrequested attention to the Neutral child, who perceives his parent's supportive and affectionate attitude as a form of smothering. The youngster will tend to withdraw from his environment, preferring solitary activities and contemplation, but as opposed to the previous scenario (of type 9), loneliness will not be accompanied by a feeling of rejection. At the contrary, being alone is a matter of choice and it gives a feeling of security and well-being, knowing that there is always someone to communicate with when they decide to seek out company.

    Such children are genuine loners, who prefer and enjoy their solitude. They are introspective, insightful and love learning and discovering things on their own, usually rejecting any help or intervention from the outside. They are afraid of being intruded upon because their parents used to make a fuss over them and suffocate them with attention and demands for closeness.

    Neutral child vs. Neutral parent
    This scenario is thought to produce Enneagram type 3

    This Neutral child's solitude is encouraged by his parent's own withdrawal and indifference, which doesn’t necessarily make the Neutral child feel openly rejected, but rather intrigues and challenges him. Serious, focused and rather unemotional, this youngster will most likely try to fulfill his occasional need for attention by impressing his parents with outstanding accomplishments and high aspirations, which make him feel worthy and valuable in their eyes.

    Later in life, these children become motivated achievers who put great emphasis on results, performance, efficiency and a successful image that will make others appreciate and admire them. Deep inside they dislike being ignored because it makes them doubt their own value, therefore they tend to hide their weaknesses and flaws and project a desirable, attractive, "I-have-it-all" persona.
    Maybe my parents were just bipolar, and so the combination of parental techniques led me to be who I am. Not to mention other outside influences of my peers.

    I'm not a 9, 5 or a 3... I highlighted aspects that are fitting to me. I'd say for the most part, I was extremely withdrawn... and often obliviously so. I don't think this theory takes into consideration "combination" parents. By that, I mean... my dad, though a very active parent, could be responsive at times. He could be incredibly scary and then super fun. He's an incredibly moody person-an ESFP, in fact. When he was in a good mood, I loved being around him... but he was definitely not someone I wanted to piss off, which lead me to be a very good kid. Ha. He could definitely be way overreactive to silly things. My mom was somewhere between responsive and neutral... and often times, I didn't really take into consideration much about it either way. I was way too withdrawn to really notice. But she was definitely the one I went to for comfort... I never felt smothered, nor did I feel as though she was too distant.

    Does anyone have any more information on the parent/child relationships dynamic for the enneagram? Good links?
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  5. #25
    Senior Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    So, Sunshine, you agree this rings a bell with you then?
    Yeah. I was always trying to get my parents' attention, especially my father's (his attention was often difficult to get), but they were often too busy or too distracted and my baby brother got TONS of attention. It wasn't intentional, and it wasn't like SUPER bad because it's not like I never got any attention but yeah.
    "To find beauty in loss, hope in darkness."

  6. #26
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
    I just re-read the active child and neutral parent thing....yep that's pretty much how it went for me growing up.
    Sunshine, I wonder if your extroversion as a child and relation to the active child scenario has anything to do with being the sexual variant. I'm pretty sure I read that sexual variant types have more energy. And they're supposed to be 'more' four. So maybe that's why those of us who aren't dominant sexual variant don't relate to it quite as well. I mean, I relate to the desire for attention, but I certainly didn't do anything to attract it. If anything, I did the opposite.

  7. #27
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    ^ likewise. i would do anything i could to avoid attention. i mean, sometimes i wanted attention... but that was more as i got older. and yet, i'd still often do the opposite--avoid it.

    i'm a ridiculous wallflower. and even now, that i've become a bit more of a social butterfly, i yearn for my wall. i've lost my filter in social settings, and wish i could go back to being hidden even as i speak.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  8. #28
    Senior Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Yeah but were you guys ignored? Maybe you would have wanted attention more if you never got any.
    "To find beauty in loss, hope in darkness."

  9. #29
    Senior Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    Sunshine, I wonder if your extroversion as a child and relation to the active child scenario has anything to do with being the sexual variant.
    That actually seems pretty plausible.
    "To find beauty in loss, hope in darkness."

  10. #30
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
    Yeah but were you guys ignored? Maybe you would have wanted attention more if you never got any.
    I was ignored by the parent who would've "caused" my 4 type (my dad left when I was 2 & I saw him infrequently on visitation), but no, I was still withdrawn & hated attention. Count me in as another 4 wallflower.....
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

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