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  1. #31
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Read this:

    http://mindheart.org/junction/oldcj/ep/types/8/87.html

    it's hard to look good when you are fighting. Most 8/7s have large features and a thick, rough complexion. Some are physically enormous, and much of that mass may be muscle.
    Well, I think this might be more worthwhile than jaw size, muscle mass, and complexion.

    http://pstypes.blogspot.com/search?u...&max-results=2

    8w7 is a bit of a wild guess. I don't actually know that much about Enneagram.

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  2. #32
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Well, I think this might be more worthwhile than jaw size, muscle mass, and complexion.

    http://pstypes.blogspot.com/search?u...&max-results=2

    8w7 is a bit of a wild guess. I don't actually know that much about Enneagram.
    Frankly, I posted the link since I thought it was amusing.

    The problem in using the results from the enneagram tests is they are confusing the words "won't back down from an argument" with being physically imposing. Not backing down from an argument to me is mental, not physical. But in enneagram terms, the 8 is physical. In my opinion, many are scoring high on the 8 for all the wrong reasons. If one is not an 8, trust me, upon reading the chapters on an 8 you will know immediately it's not what you are. Books far surpass any of the superficial nonsense that is posted online. If you want depth of understanding, you have to hit the books.

    If anyone wants a few good books that aren't the same old story, I recommend:

    1. The Nine Ways of Working: How To Use The Enneagram to Work More Effectively, by Michael J. Goldberg
    2. The Positive Enneagram: A New Approach to the Nine Personality Types, by Susan Rhodes
    3. Nine Lenses on the World: The Enneagram Perspective, by Jerome Wagner

    I purposely chose to break away from the same old way of doing things which is using Riso-Hudson to understand the Enneagram. It's not that I haven't read Riso-Hudson, I have, but to learn a subject using only one source, especially if it's "popular" among the masses, has never appealed to me. It breeds one-way street thinking.

    I take test results with a grain of salt. The same is true for MBTI and the Cog Processes test. Reflecting on who you are, and who you are not, is what is key. No test result will give you that answer. It comes from within.

    I can think of nothing more ridiculous than a person typing themselves based on a description that others do not have access to, then announcing their type. If what you and others are reading are not the same material, there is no real understanding. If anything, the potential is greater for misunderstanding.

    I'd rather know nothing at all about someone, than be fed inaccurate information about them.

  3. #33
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Jaguar: GeorgewBush
    Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament <---- click here

    "I like the sigs with quotes in them from other forum members." -- Oberon

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  4. #34
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    Jaguar: GeorgewBush
    Jeffster: Pee-wee Herman.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    Jaguar: GeorgewBush
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Jeffster: Pee-wee Herman.
    Both of you:


  6. #36
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Frankly, I posted the link since I thought it was amusing.

    The problem in using the results from the enneagram tests is they are confusing the words "won't back down from an argument" with being physically imposing. Not backing down from an argument to me is mental, not physical. But in enneagram terms, the 8 is physical. In my opinion, many are scoring high on the 8 for all the wrong reasons. If one is not an 8, trust me, upon reading the chapters on an 8 you will know immediately it's not what you are. Books far surpass any of the superficial nonsense that is posted online. If you want depth of understanding, you have to hit the books.

    If anyone wants a few good books that aren't the same old story, I recommend:

    1. The Nine Ways of Working: How To Use The Enneagram to Work More Effectively, by Michael J. Goldberg
    2. The Positive Enneagram: A New Approach to the Nine Personality Types, by Susan Rhodes
    3. Nine Lenses on the World: The Enneagram Perspective, by Jerome Wagner

    I purposely chose to break away from the same old way of doing things which is using Riso-Hudson to understand the Enneagram. It's not that I haven't read Riso-Hudson, I have, but to learn a subject using only one source, especially if it's "popular" among the masses, has never appealed to me. It breeds one-way street thinking.

    I take test results with a grain of salt. The same is true for MBTI and the Cog Processes test. Reflecting on who you are, and who you are not, is what is key. No test result will give you that answer. It comes from within.

    I can think of nothing more ridiculous than a person typing themselves based on a description that others do not have access to, then announcing their type. If what you and others are reading are not the same material, there is no real understanding. If anything, the potential is greater for misunderstanding.

    I'd rather know nothing at all about someone, than be fed inaccurate information about them.
    These are really great points and recommendations. Thanks!! Given the number of people who seem to think the Enneagram resonates more for them than MBTI, maybe we should all be paying a lot more attention to it.

    I have a couple of books on it - One which is about the intersection of MBTI and Enneagram, which I liked, and the other called The Spiritual Dimension of the Enneagram. The latter had this stuff about the "soul child" that I like a lot but otherwise it's a bit etherial for my tastes, so I haven't really been able to get through it all. I will have to check out those ones you've recommended.

    I remember EdCoaching saying she thought you couldn't really tell someone's Ennagram type very well through those tests.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

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  7. #37
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    What's the one about the intersection called?

  8. #38
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    What's the one about the intersection called?
    Three Keys To Self Understanding by Pat Wyman.

    "An Innovative and Effective Combination of the Meyers-Briggs Type Indicator Assessment Tool, the Enneagram and Inner-Child Healing"

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  9. #39
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I remember EdCoaching saying she thought you couldn't really tell someone's Ennagram type very well through those tests.
    Definitely agree with that. In many cases, the enneagram tests seem actively unhelpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Three Keys To Self Understanding by Pat Wyman.

    "An Innovative and Effective Combination of the Meyers-Briggs Type Indicator Assessment Tool, the Enneagram and Inner-Child Healing"
    I found Three Keys helpful, even if it isn't backed up with anything empirically—it's just the result of one therapist's experience of using both the MBTI and the enneagram over the years with her group practice's clients. The book did help underscore that the enneagram is really about one's long-term defenses, as did attendeding a Helen Palmer workshop. The "Inner-Child Healing" part of the title of Wyman's book makes me roll my eyes, though.

    Pat Wyman also has a lecture that one can buy on the same topic (although it doesn't go into as much depth as the book).

  10. #40
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    I found Three Keys helpful, even if it isn't backed up with anything empirically—it's just the result of one therapist's experience of using both the MBTI and the enneagram over the years with her group practice's clients. The book did help underscore that the enneagram is really about one's long-term defenses, as did attendeding a Helen Palmer workshop. The "Inner-Child Healing" part of the title of Wyman's book makes me roll my eyes, though.

    Pat Wyman also has a lecture that one can buy on the same topic (although it doesn't go into as much depth as the book).
    Here are a few quotes from the book that give you some ideas as to how her thinking runs:

    "The Enneagram Defense System is dedicated to protecting us by providing a variety of coping skills and techniques. As such, some of the qualities manifested by this part of personality appear when we are at our worst, such as during periods of stress. Sometimes when discovering her Enneagram type, a person will feel uncomfortable because the descriptors are not always flattering. It would be a mistake to look for affirmation or identity in your Enneagram type. You are not your Defense System. You are much more."

    "If the Enneagram System is understood as the Defense System and not the defining personality type, it becomes clear that the differences seen in possessing the same Enneagram type are differences due to the defining or Core Self and not "wings," "subtypes" or anything else. So, if we look at two people, both having the Enneagram Defense of the One (perfectionist) but having different MBTI types, we will see vast differences between the two. "

    She defines MBTI as relating to the "core self". As an aside, I'm just noticing her notes - her favorite book and author on the Enneagram is The Enneagram by H. Palmer.

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