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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I find them abrasive because their head is too far up their butt to see their not as "objective" as they'd like to believe, so their comments are very much personal even if not intended to be. They're also moody & fickle little buggers;
    I think the key here is to find 5w4's that have stop being so delusional as to think they can be completely 'objective' all of the time, it isn't possible, personally, as a 5w4, embracing how subjective and illogical not to mention moody bastards we actually are is the best route, but maybe it's more difficult for other 5w4's? lol or having a 4w3 girlfriend and best friend has destroyed my 'five-ness'





    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    yeah, except from girls. the intp 5w4 sx/sps seem better at just playing the game
    Can you elaborate on this more?, I would be interested in hearing about it more.

  2. #12
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_World_As_Will View Post
    I think the key here is to find 5w4's that have stop being so delusional as to think they can be completely 'objective' all of the time, it isn't possible, personally, as a 5w4, embracing how subjective and illogical not to mention moody bastards we actually are is the best route, but maybe it's more difficult for other 5w4's? lol or having a 4w3 girlfriend and best friend has destroyed my 'five-ness'. Can you elaborate on this more?, I would be interested in hearing about it more.
    Both SX and SO instinctively HAVE to care to some degree what others think.

    - SX needs other people -- one on one, but it's still a need. They crave depth with individuals. They're probably more willing to give someone connection is return for connection.

    - SO thinks more broadly, rather than deeply. Again, some desire for a broad social network means they'll also invest in that.

    - SP naturally keeps people at a distance. There is nothing they really want from others than they can't find in themselves. Hence, they don't care or need to care what others think, really. If everyone bails on them, they've already conserved the resources necessary to care for themselves, or will make do without. No biggie.

    - SX/SP is a mix of the two. It can "play the game" -- go deep to fill the craving, but also can create space / keep people away when necessary.

    I agree with the comments on 5w4 about needing to let go of the illusion of objectivity. There's a lot of mystery and ambiguity in the world, as well as personal needs; we're all approaching life from a particular perspective, no one has a handle on all of reality. This is a 5 thing in general, but a 5w4 has a passion defined along 4 lines that colors everything, and if that part is ignored/downplayed, the 5w4 loses self-potential.
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  3. #13
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    yeah, i think that's multiple things tho. sfj female meet ntp (or maybe even 5w6 istp) male. for non-intp e5 males, i wonder if the e2 connection still makes sense. from my end, as an infj 5w4, it seems crazy, i think. maybe an intj 5w4 would work with an e2 enfj. i think i'd have better luck with 1w2s.
    There are ENFP 4s and 2s out there as well, and I tend to be a fan of the INFJ-ENFP matchup in general. I really like the idea of an ENxP 7 with an INFJ 5 as well, assuming you are a fan of 7 energy. And yes, I've seen female 7s be very attracted to male 5s before.

    Plus, there are 7s out there that are plenty intelligent and hungry for knowledge. They just happen to often be much better at using that knowledge for action, which honestly, is a great thing for a 5 to learn about.

    the 4w3 comment is very interesting. it's a type i have a severely underdeveloped representation of in my mind. one male and one female. the female (isfp?) did try to initiate with me, tho, and if i had been less inept back then, it would have worked. hahaha, she was in a sorority and i was militantly anti-sorority, but she still intrigued me very much.
    I would say IxFP and xNFJ are the most common 4w3 types that I'm aware of.

  4. #14
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    I don't see 5w4 types as projects. I am just very very attracted to the type. They're intriguing. What's there not to like? Intelligence... hidden passion and romanticism... creative... artistic... I've always been immediately attracted to these types. Sadly, I've yet to actually date one. More like, crush from afar.
    You have me sold, lady. I'll take 10!!

    Quote Originally Posted by The_World_As_Will View Post
    I think the key here is to find 5w4's that have stop being so delusional as to think they can be completely 'objective' all of the time, it isn't possible, personally, as a 5w4, embracing how subjective and illogical not to mention moody bastards we actually are is the best route, but maybe it's more difficult for other 5w4's? lol or having a 4w3 girlfriend and best friend has destroyed my 'five-ness'
    Hm. I think sometimes people feel comforted in their roles like this. "Be as objective as possible, even if you fail.." it can be comforting. But, I think people will ultimately be not satisfied by this because, afterall, you never will succeed. Moreso, I find that putting myself out of my comfort zones not only make me stronger and better prepared for life.. but it expands my comfort zone. People who retreat into this 'objective' personality to the point of acting robotic, I always feel like they're too scared to expand their comfort zones.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    So what does it say about types attracted to 5w4 females?

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    I don't see 5w4 types as projects. I am just very very attracted to the type. They're intriguing. What's there not to like? Intelligence... hidden passion and romanticism... creative... artistic... I've always been immediately attracted to these types. Sadly, I've yet to actually date one. More like, crush from afar.
    Be sure not to project too much there, I think you also have to look at the other part of 5w4's, there is this overarching feeling of self-doubt about everything, never feeling good enough, never intelligent enough, not romantic, nor creative, Its definitely a difficult thing to overcome. I think we (5w4's) just lack confidence in ourselves that we are truly good at anything to contribute in the world, and say if we muster up the courage to do so, and if it works, we will feel on top of the world, but on the other hand, if this doesn't suffice and we get rejected, it reinforces that 'I knew i was going to fail anyway' mentality, lol Personally, I have no clue why the 5w4 personality is attractive =/ it's hell, way too sensitive to the world, especially if you're an 'sx'

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post

    Hm. I think sometimes people feel comforted in their roles like this. "Be as objective as possible, even if you fail.." it can be comforting. But, I think people will ultimately be not satisfied by this because, afterall, you never will succeed. Moreso, I find that putting myself out of my comfort zones not only make me stronger and better prepared for life.. but it expands my comfort zone. People who retreat into this 'objective' personality to the point of acting robotic, I always feel like they're too scared to expand their comfort zones.
    I would agree, but only partially, stepping out of your comfort zone takes an abundance of energy, especially for a five. It's easier, and less taxing to sit there and observe; sure, there is that pressure to meet other people [damn human need to be social :/ ] I guess it's just easier to retreat, but I would agree with you, I hate the robotic personality that I, at times, have been labelled, frankly it strips all the human qualities away from my personality, which is distressing, Humanity, despite all of it's flaws, has a lot of beauty and creativity to it, without that, if you aren't human than what would be the point? in doing anything?. But I suppose variants would play a significant role in the flavouring the response to 'being robotic' for a five, as an sx/sp I hate it.

  7. #17
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    There are ENFP 4s and 2s out there as well, and I tend to be a fan of the INFJ-ENFP matchup in general. I really like the idea of an ENxP 7 with an INFJ 5 as well, assuming you are a fan of 7 energy. And yes, I've seen female 7s be very attracted to male 5s before.

    Plus, there are 7s out there that are plenty intelligent and hungry for knowledge. They just happen to often be much better at using that knowledge for action, which honestly, is a great thing for a 5 to learn about.
    what do you see as the keys for 5s and 7s? i'd be curious to hear your impressions of 5s from the perspective of the other, of other types, as well. that's where my oblivious factor starts to kick in. i know how to USE Fe, to immediately find a way of relating or setting up an interactional construct, but i have very very poor reasoning before that that would help me consciously construct a story/script that places both parties in a contextualized interaction. which means that most of the time i use Fe more for my own ends just kind of impulsively, or, in other scenarios, more passively as a basic kind of emotional stethoscope as i'm listening to the language of the world around me. i can reconstruct the chaos of the other (and all of the messiness of the sx self as its cross-located by other external forces), but i can't reconstruct the ordering process they go through to build their own pragmatic truth/story very easily. it's like i have their playbook and i can kind of jump their play based on formation and other things, but i don't know what their goals are within their play, or how they interpret the meaning of their play. you can also use Fe for like testing purposes if you are more strategic, and 3w4 enfjs are pretty great at gathering information and smoothly transitioning and maintaining face. they've mastered the art of making people happy to give them whatever they want. but i'm terrible at that.

  8. #18
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_World_As_Will View Post
    Can you elaborate on this more?, I would be interested in hearing about it more.
    i don't know where to begin. there's an intp psychologist, ellis i think, who describes his psychology practice as "rational emotive behavioral therapy." he has a list of 12 stupid ideas that make people unhealthy. they are very highly correlated with F issues. most of the intps i know take a similar approach, becoming quite extreme in their position. i know one kid that's a computer program who definitely makes finding work harder for himself because of his personality and his communication issues (when thinking everyone else is just stupid it's difficult to effectively communicate!). the kind of pristinely linear Ti pure science idealism is different from my idealism in very obvious ways. it's not reliant on the language of the social reality, on shared representations, as its starting off point. it's not swimming against the F male current. it's not as intensely in need of relationship for emotional purposes. it helps emotionally, and it helps in a whole hell of a lot of ways, but emotions are tabled more easily. for an infj, they are our link, our grounding, our consistent engagement with the world. when we don't get them, we start to drift away and our color starts to fade. we don't have the right machinery to handle colorlessness as well as the i always wear black on the outside and on the inside intps 5s. Ti types, when they want something, on the other hand, primarily need a story that is truthable, that is not obviously false, and they're mostly good to go (ie how they see themselves as the best liars ever and take a weird kind of pride in some of their admittedly quite impressive most effective lies).

    infjs seems worse at idealizing relationships than intps do, who are more grounded in exactly what they are pragmatically worth. they misjudge the emotional value, at times, but the relationship in the course of their larger story is much more grounded in what's true for them. infjs have more troubling finding that grounded context for the story, to discover the personal/subjective truth measured in terms of RELEVANCY for them. which is just to say, in introverted truth framework, when we instead rely on a highly organized and structured association/pattern detection network.

    we infjs also have to adapt the language/culture we've inherited to develop our position through this kind of left-brained reasoning. it's very hierarchical and slow to change, very restrictive. and when it's Fe rather than Te, it's also guided by a very strong sense of shame, of who you're supposed to be that you have to constantly reconciling, seeing yourself as the way you relate to the expectations you've inherited. this can make for some uncomfortable growth processes and needlessly difficult reconciliations with what is assumed to be right. nps learn through experience, which is far more effective in many aspects of life (tho definitely not all).

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    I've seen 2s and 4s, especially 4w3s, be really attracted to 5w4s.
    Why do you think this is so Udog?, that 4w3's are really attracted to 5w4s?, lol What's so special about us really?

  10. #20
    Member Affably Evil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uytuun View Post
    So what does it say about types attracted to 5w4 females?
    That you like hunting elusive game, I think.
    5w4 sx/sp

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