User Tag List

First 2345 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 47

  1. #31
    ReflecTcelfeR
    Guest

    Default

    A hoarder of knowledge... So, in general, is a five more likely to have an extreme fear of being wrong? Because I have that.... Big time. You know, now that I ask this, I see it's far to general to be one category. I suppose, is it intensified within the five more than all the others?

  2. #32
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEI Ni
    Posts
    7,661

    Default

    ^ Pretty much. The image the 5 forms is about being intelligent & knowledgeable, so to appear wrong threatens their ego. In myself, I think my 5 wing motivations make me double check my things a lot (ie. verify my usage of words in the dictionary) and qualify expressions as my opinion as some sort preemptive defense to being wrong. It's sort of INFP style meets 5, I guess.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  3. #33
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    17,899

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Do these hold true for you? If so, how have you overcome these tendencies in your relationships (or how did they get in the way)?

    Type Eight
    What they look for
    Dependability, loyalty, strength, sexual compatibility.
    These are probably right.

    What gets in the way
    Insisting on maintaining control of others. Manipulates by dominating others and by demanding that others do as they say.
    I've thought about it a good deal and honestly am not sure these are right for me. It may have something to do with being an INTJ. I need someone sufficiently independent who can stand up to the strength of my personality. So, if I were to control them, they wouldn't be independent enough.

    I can be demanding I suppose though.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

  4. #34
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    3,683

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by StarryKnights View Post
    I like this. Even with the e6 'testing'...where I am trying to elicit a specific response...I don't do it to manipulate per se. In other words I am trying to see the truth...not create/change what is true. It is a coping strategy to protect me from being taken 'off guard'.
    Yeah. So maybe the definition of manipulative here is more about the means by which we seek some form of personal control over the connection. I also have an association with the term 'manipulation' which infers creating/changing what is true for the sake of personal gain (as covert means to take advantage of another person). And I see withdrawing as means to prevent being taken advantage of oneself- but it's still a form of unilateral control I suppose.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  5. #35
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    3,683

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    A hoarder of knowledge... So, in general, is a five more likely to have an extreme fear of being wrong? Because I have that.... Big time. You know, now that I ask this, I see it's far to general to be one category. I suppose, is it intensified within the five more than all the others?
    I think it's more a fear of appearing wrong- or of not being able to effectively defend one's position- than it is a fear of actually being wrong. It's a fear of having no credibility, of being incapable or incompetent, which motivates the hoarding of knowledge.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  6. #36
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    451 sp/sx
    Socionics
    INFp Ni
    Posts
    1,373

    Default

    I'm sure I'm a type Four, but the description for type Six matches me slightly better. I don't insist on having my emotional needs met--I usually subordinate my needs to the other person's--and while I don't vacillate between a need for distance and a need for closeness, either (if I'm in love with someone, I like to be around them as much as they'll comfortably let me), I do struggle with issues of self-doubt and reactivity (which I suppose doubles as being temperamental like a type Four), and have a very strong tendency to test the person over and over again to make sure that we're in good standing. In the past, I've also tended to express negativity, or complain, to put it in less flattering terms, in a subtle effort to make the other person feel responsible for me and therefore less likely to walk away.

    Basically, the way that I've confronted those tendencies in myself is by realizing that a relationship can't exist in the presence of manipulation. If you're manipulating someone, whether you're doing it like a type Two or a Type Seven, you have already demonstrated that you're not in a real relationship. You're nudging the person this way and that in a fashion that shows that you regard them less as an autonomous human being and more as a lifeless object without any say for itself. A relationship with an object is fetishism, not romance. Secondly, your attempts to manipulate another person will almost inevitably push them away, because most people don't like to be controlled, and even those who do like to be controlled are unlikely to want to deal with the emotional responsibility that comes with being needed by someone.

    In a real relationship, two people freely consort as equals; they don't have any need or desire to chain each other together.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  7. #37
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    me
    Posts
    234

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I was wondering the same thing when I read the op (“Manipulates by staying preoccupied with ideas and projects and by detaching emotionally from others”), because ‘staying preoccupied with ideas and projects’ and detaching seem more like coping devices than manipulative behaviors. At least for me- I do it for the sake of itself, not to elicit a specific response from someone else.

    When I read through the other types’ supposedly ‘manipulative’ behaviors, I could see how they were manipulative. The fact that I'm only having trouble understanding how the Five description is manipulative seems maybe indicative that I can't see it because it’s too close to home. Dunno.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    It becomes manipualtive if it's avoidance .. being involved in any kind of relationship requires responsibility from each side.
    If you are "busy" as a way of not dealing with something that involves not only your feelings but those of others, it's manipulative.

    I know it's motivation seems born out of self preservation.

    The information presented is in regard to relationships. Once in a relationship the focus of responsibility changes. Most people will feel manipulated if the relationship is always on your terms.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    I just want to add.. I only say this because, I am so good at not being responsible, making unilateral decisions that affect others and withdrawing on my terms.

    This is what the both the type 5 and 6 have to work on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Like Arc says, Five practices a passive manipulation (rather than a more conscious one), seeking to divert things into the intellectual and detached, although relationships are not detached by nature. Those who attempt to require more engagement are fended off, made to feel stupid or guilty or too emotional, etc., as if there is something wrong with them for not acting more like the Five.

    Basically, the Five either has to remain completely alone (to maintain integrity) or else has to actually engage back in order to at least be fair in regards to the investments being made in her. But no one is completely self-contained; we all interact with people or benefit from other people to some degree.

    Anyway, the term "manipulation" can be quibbled over, I suppose; traditionally, the Five is selfish... a hoarder of time and resources... afraid to take risks unless the answer is already known... afraid to risk the intellectual reputation... and not realizing, by Enneagram conventions, that intellect is not meant to be hoarded and is not an end in itself, but is a gift and talent to be spent when interacting with others. It's what the Five can bring to the table as a gift, not as a means to win resources for itself while otherwise fending off intrusions into its personal space.

    Arclight has highlighted some good points. You'll see if you look at Karen Horney's "withdrawn" type (4,5,9), how detachment (among other things) is a way of keeping the ball in your court. Integrity as Jennifer says, is one part of the equation. Withdrawn types tend not to want to be interfered with ultimately, in this lack of interference coincides with integrity at the end of the day.

    I might pip in after I do a bit more thinking with how I think the withdrawn types "manipulate" (because it's more than just withholding information, it also has to do with power, choice and will... and additionally, the latter two points relate to 6 concerns especially too).

    ~~
    I'm getting to know a 5 right now, and it does feel like my power is being taken from him, sometimes. I can see both our ways of protecting ourselves and enforcing our wills into the situation. I'm being steady with my support and feelings, yet, I have to have certainty about how he feels about me (i'm a six) so I ask him to give me feedback very sutbly, so I'm not crossing any of his boundaries. While he is inherently detached from any claims he makes about himself, and indeed sometimes from me. It is hard to get to know someone when they are largely ambivalent and block you out from reading them in any way. I block people out too, so finally I can appreciate the similar things I do to other people. It is frustrating, and I feel powerless in the situation. Where we end up in the relationship is in his hands. I do the work, and he is the one who says yes or no. The ball is in his court, yet I am the one summoning the effort in attempt to draw him out. I have to read his mind sometimes, because I know he is very hypersensitive to what others want from him, yet he has a difficulty saying no. It leaves me being very uncertain, when preferably i'd like communication to be more open, so I can ask questions, or be given directions, instead of guessing. I do not want to be guessing anything with him, but questions seem intrusive to him.

  8. #38
    Ginkgo
    Guest

    Default

    Since manipulation is always voluntary, I think the OP is actually describing neutral affects enneagram types tend to have on the people around them.

  9. #39
    figsfiggyfigs
    Guest

    Default

    That is insanely accurate.

    Esp if you put the wing in perspective as well.

    This is also true for my friend's types as well.

  10. #40
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    8,024

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Like Arc says, Five practices a passive manipulation (rather than a more conscious one), seeking to divert things into the intellectual and detached, although relationships are not detached by nature. Those who attempt to require more engagement are fended off, made to feel stupid or guilty or too emotional, etc., as if there is something wrong with them for not acting more like the Five.

    Basically, the Five either has to remain completely alone (to maintain integrity) or else has to actually engage back in order to at least be fair in regards to the investments being made in her. But no one is completely self-contained; we all interact with people or benefit from other people to some degree.

    Anyway, the term "manipulation" can be quibbled over, I suppose; traditionally, the Five is selfish... a hoarder of time and resources... afraid to take risks unless the answer is already known... afraid to risk the intellectual reputation... and not realizing, by Enneagram conventions, that intellect is not meant to be hoarded and is not an end in itself, but is a gift and talent to be spent when interacting with others. It's what the Five can bring to the table as a gift, not as a means to win resources for itself while otherwise fending off intrusions into its personal space.
    As an 8w7 who displays some 5 tendencies, I agree with this except to include the caveat that there will be individuals and situations that aren't worth the fight or effort to engage with. The individual themselves will have to weigh the positives and negatives and decide what's/who's worth it or not.

Similar Threads

  1. [ESTP] ESTP Relationships - What do ESTPs look for in romantic relationships?
    By Twixt in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 77
    Last Post: 08-27-2017, 06:28 PM
  2. [MBTItm] What Each Type Looks Like In The Grip Of The Inferior
    By Mal12345 in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 11-25-2016, 10:01 PM
  3. [ENFP] ENFPs - what do you look for in a relationship?
    By Lauren Ashley in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 56
    Last Post: 07-23-2014, 09:42 AM
  4. What do types look for in stories?
    By Kurt.Is.God in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 10-05-2010, 04:58 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO