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  1. #11
    ¡MI TORTA! Amethyst's Avatar
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    Hmm...I'm a 7w8...but I don't really relate to the 8. I relate to 5 a lot more, possibly more than 7.

  2. #12
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    I relate to the 5 description, but if it's the right person, I want to spend time with them, or to do ideas and projects together. Not all the time, of course, but I don't like total separation.
    Something Witty

  3. #13
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    definitely true for me and my 9 ex

  4. #14
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    I relate to the manipulation aspect of number 3 and 5, but with healthy description of 7. Just took an enneagram test and got 3 with what I'm assuming is a wing 4 because it was the next highest in the line of strengths.

  5. #15
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    ^ agree 100% and i'm think i'm a 3w4 too.

    Type Three
    What they look for
    Social suitability, competence, admirability, attractiveness.
    What gets in the way
    Insisting on career and social status before the relationship. Manipulates by charming others and by adopting whatever image will work.
    haha. at first i was like NO, but the "what they look for" attributes are true, except on a complicated level. those things are generally qualities of people i'm attracted to, but it's not really ever been conscious. i joke that i tend to fall for people in high positions, because it's true. i don't know why; it's not intentional on my part. i'm attracted to people who have others look up to them. who are trusted. who are reliable. i suspect it's less about status itself and more about what status connotes - passion, drive, trustworthiness, confidence, a desire to reach out and impact a lot of people.

    those things about "what gets in the way" is not quite right for me, though. the manipulation is true to an extent, but i've never really run into trouble because of it. usually people like me for my ability to shift to meet a situation, and to connect with almost anyone. see, i don't really see it on "manipulative" terms. it's not usually intended that way, at least. there's often nothing subversive about it. i also wouldn't give up a relationship for career or social status... i would say screw both, they can always be rebuilt. but at the same time, the people i like are usually more socially and career-concerned than i am. so, it's usually a non-issue.

    what does happen to get in the way is me getting jealous of the time and effort they devote to others. it's both admirable and confounding. :blushing:

  6. #16
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    And I don’t always know I’m doing it, either. I’ve got to have it pointed out to me or I’m oblivious. It’s just an instinctive reaction to feeling either somehow disrespected or bored. (And a lot of times I won't even realize I'm feeling disrespected or bored, that needs to be pointed out to me as well.)
    If you don't know you're doing it, can it really be described as "manipulation"?

    I think if something/one is making you bored or disrespecting you it's perfectly natural that you withdraw from that stimulus.
    By the time I've completely withdrawn/emotionally detached from a person, there is no question of my trying to manipulate them (there never is - the very idea is anathema to me). I've simply lost the ability to care. And once that happens there's really nothing more to say/do. If the relationship means something to me, I'll fight for a long time before that to try to keep communication going, but there comes a point where it's just more effort/pain than it's worth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Type Four
    What they look for
    Communication, listening, acceptance, emotional honesty.
    What gets in the way
    Insisting on having all of their emotional needs met immediately. Manipulates by being temperamental and making others walk on eggshells.

    Type Five
    What they look for
    Curiosity, intensity, involvement, non-intrusiveness.
    What gets in the way
    Insisting on personal space and non-interference. Manipulates by staying preoccupied with ideas and projects and by detaching emotionally from others.
    Who knows, I am 4w5 and can relate more to the 5.

  8. #18
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Not sure if I fit into the relationship +/- model for the 8 or even one with a 7 wing. Instinctual stackings appear more accurate for me.

  9. #19
    jump sleuthiness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I'm not sure if this is what you mean....but I think my 5 wing makes me want to be able to play devil's advocate sometimes, which is really just a way to explore ideas, but some take it as arguing or being difficult. It has been a turn-off in the past when someone takes it too seriously (as in, a real argument) or just brushes it off to placate me. I also really hate when a rebuttal amounts to a cliche. The obvious is obvious.

    Do you have an INFP sensitive side that ever comes into play? Can people cross a line with you in these conversations?
    Even once you peel back all the layers people take for granted, the answer is never the result. I don't think even the obvious after the obvious can be trusted.

    I consider my natural state very sensitive, but express it so subtly that it's not picked up on often, to the point at which I seem calculating, which is actually true in a way. As long as it's an actual conversation, arguments don't bug me at all. In fact, I make a point of actively withholding select clues, not lazily participating in social rounds to slowly wear them down for pure fun while pretending to argue if it appears to be a potential waste of time, which isn't often because Dance with the stars is on whenever I feel like engaging. Either that or huffing them over with one minuscule behavioral nuance that I find amusing/interesting in the form of a hit n run.

    I've probably had this issue with INTP 5s (anecdote? ). I think it's the emotional sensitivity of being a 4. All of a sudden, my identity feels threatened, and my wittle INFP feelings get hurt. There is a tendency to take things personal because I see my ideas/feelings as ME. We're both into a somewhat intense discussion, & then they cross a value boundary, and my wall goes up. I would also ask for clarification of their ideas, but they would not ask me, and I felt they assumed something that was not part of my case at all. Their supposed detachment was condescending, & they definitely would seem belligerent. The fun stops there.

    On the other hand, I felt closer to these people than ones who just placate me and pat me on my head and say, "That's cute". Disdain will grow for those people, who I'll start to see as shallow.
    Is this a 1:1, 2, or maybe 3 situation at most? Because when I'm immersed in a group of upwards of 10 non-mbti-acclimated intps I either get really cool/silent or that "gotta jet" zap to the head. Any fewer is alright. It's actually sp/sx intps that lack the most mutual understanding (maybe you could share your experience here). sx/sos and so/sx intps are too go go go, light but embarrassingly/comparatively quick (enough to get to the gist of it where I'd spend way too long layering responses - which seem unnecessary to them) in expressing themselves. Lastly, sx/sps 5s use different fuel (theirs is more rocket whereas so/sps use premium), but expend it much in the same way as an so/sp, as far as picking up on similar shades with their radar also turned outward, so regardless of mbti type, it's a shared notion that our environment is a place for controlled/sp-stabilized action.

    thinking of you

  10. #20
    violaine
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I relate more to the 5 in some ways too, but the 4 withdrawing seems to be the cincher. People open up to me emotionally, and that seems enough at first. I don't think I insist on my emotional needs being met so much as become "difficult" as a way to test someone. I'm not dramatic at all, but I'll get a little ornery. Part of this relates to my 5 wing & the need for some intellectual stimulation; I'll force it if it's not happening, and then it seems like I'm being contradictory for the sake of it. If the other person can't meet me, then I'm bored.

    I also need massive amounts of space & alone time. I find myself avoiding phone calls & being busy with "projects", definitely. I think the 4 nail in the coffin is when I get testy though; it's to force the hand of the other person, but almost to meet the 5 needs, not the 4 needs. Whereas if the 5 needs are met, then the 4 needs get in the way.

    Have you ever gotten past this with someone?
    Only with other introverts so far. IXTXs to be precise. Though that has it's own challenges. (We can both suddenly be waving at each other: "hello, I'm over here with needs and such that I myself completely forgot about until this moment!") I feel at home with another introvert though.

    I don't think I test people, though, as you say I can be ornery. I get that way if 1) my mindspace is being invaded by someone making what seems like continual demands of me. Coming out of deep thought when I'm working on something really irks me. If the conversation has an emotional blame component to it, and the person is just at me and at me, I go from calm to intensely angry without much in between. 2) if my partner is perpetually disengaged and the relationship feels business-like.

    Hmm, 4w5 makes for some interesting relationship intra/interpersonal dynamics. I wonder if it's similar for 5w4s. Engagement and disengagement to feed the need for closeness and for space is an ongoing dance for me.
    Last edited by violaine; 11-01-2010 at 06:15 PM.

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