Zarathustra's Enneagram Type

[Zarathustra]

So I've never taken much interest in the enneagram, and I don't really know too much about it.

Originally, I just looked at some of the wikipedia stuff, and typed myself 8w9.

I believe my sister had guessed as much when she studied it some years ago.

Then this ENTP named Bay suggested that, based on my posts, she thought I was actually a counterphobic 6.

Not knowing what the hell that meant, I checked it out, and, well, the description of the counterphobic 6 seemed to be about as accurate as the description of the 8 -- no more, no less.

So, having sat on it, and wondered to myself, "hmmm, so am I an 8w9 or a 6w5, or maybe even a 5w6...?", I finally took my first enneagram test, and here's what I got:

(I took the short test from similarminds.com)

Results:

Type 1 Perfectionism

|||||||||||| 42%​

Type 2 Helpfulness

|||||||||| 34%​

Type 3 Image Focus

|||||||||||||||| 70%​

Type 4 Hypersensitivity

|| 10%​

Type 5 Detachment

|||||||||||||||| 70%​

Type 6 Anxiety

|||||||||||||||||| 78%​

Type 7 Adventurousnes

|||||||||||||| 54%​

Type 8 Aggressiveness

|||||||||||||||||| 78%​

Type 9 Calmness

|||||||||||||| 54%​

type score type behavior motivation
6 19 I must be secure and safe to be happy.
8 19 I must be strong and in control to be happy.
3 17 I must be impressive and attractive to be happy.
5 17 I must be knowledgable and independent to be happy.
7 13 I must be high and entertained to be happy.
9 13 I must maintian a peaceful and easygoing environment to be happy.
1 10 I must be perfect and good to be happy.
2 8 I must be helpful and caring to be happy.
4 2 I must be true to my emotions to be happy.

Your main type is Type 6

Your variant is sexual

Questions:

1. So why the hell do those results make me a 6, instead of an 8?

I think this might just be one of those cases where the website can only spit out one answer, so it just chooses one of them...

I mean, based on these results, my 6 and my 8 are equal...

So, what does that mean?

2. Also, how the hell is the sx/so/sp stuff calculated?

Note:

I don't know shit about enneagram, which is why I started this thread in the first place.

Thanks.

 

[Noon]

Even before I saw your instincts, when I saw that 6-8-3 were the top, I immediately thought, "He must be an sx counter-phobic 6w5."

My amateur opinion:
Any type can be any enneatype (especially 6), but it makes even more sense for INJs to be 6w5 because they are hyper-aware, naturally don't trust or take things at only face value, feel the need to defend themselves against the environment, and are more cerebral (5) than sensation-seeking (7).

Every type has a line of (a) integration and (b) disintegration. For the 6, it's (a) 9 and (b) 3. So the 6 is influenced by both types in addition to its own 6ness.

Counter-phobic 6s have some things in common with 8s and you see the cp6 mistyping as 8 very frequently, especially among males. Cp 6s are outspoken, dislike to be vulnerable/controlled/subordinated/manipulated, and they deal with their fears and anxieties by confronting them (rather than avoiding or submitting to them like the phobic 6). Perhaps the biggest difference is that 6s are still somewhat self-doubting while the 8 is very self-assured and confident in their correctness. That makes the 6 more reactive and more defensive.

Sexual 6s have a stronger connection to type 3 than other variants do. Most of the time, the 6 sx has a desire to appear strong (/competent) and desirable (/attractive). They're more image-conscious, in other words. Also more assertive. Type 5 also has a natural connection to type 8, so the 6w5 is supposedly closer to the 8 than the 6w7 is, whether or not the 6w5 is phobic or counter-phobic. However, you could of course simply be an 8.

About the variants... They are calculated by examining the highest focus of your energy. Somewhat oversimplified: self-preservational (sp) variants are concerned with personal safety and security, social (so) variants are concerned with image, reputation, hierarchy and contribution (more likely to care about what others think), sexual (sx) variants are concerned with intensity (of all kinds) and deep interpersonal connections.

Here's something on the difference between 6s and 8s:

Sixes and Eights are aggressive, although only the Eight is an entirely aggressive personality. Sixes react both to their fears and to other people and constantly oscillate from one state to another, from Level to Level. They are ambivalent and passive-aggressive, evasive, and contradictory. In contrast, Eights have solid egos and formidable wills; they keep pushing others until they get them what they want. There is little softness in Eights and even less tendency to comply with the wishes of anyone else. They have no desire to be liked or to ingratiate themselves with others. Rather than look to others for protection, Eights offer protection (patronage) in return for hard work and loyalty.

As different as these two types are, they are nevertheless similar at Level 6–but only at this Level. At this stage both Sixes (The Authoritarian Rebel) and in Eights (The Confrontational Adversary) show similar aggressive traits–belligerence, defiance, a willingness to intimidate others, a quick and threatening temper, the threat of violence, hatred of others, and so forth. However, Eights arrive at this stage as a result of constantly escalating their pressure on others to get what they want until they have become highly confrontational and combative. Sixes arrive at their state from a very different route–in reaction to their vacillation and dependency. Sixes become aggressive because they do not want to be pushed around anymore; Eights become aggressive to push others even more.

The essential difference is that Sixes eventually will yield and their defenses will crumble if enough pressure is applied to them, whereas opposition to Eights only encourages them to remain defiant and to meet their adversary with renewed aggression.

Both types at this Level can be dangerous; ironically, Sixes are probably more dangerous at this stage than Eights since they are anxious and may strike out at someone impulsively or irrationally. On the other hand, average Eights are more rational: they take the odds of success into account at every move. If and when they finally do become violent, however, Eights are more dangerous than Sixes because they are more ruthless, and the momentum of their inflated egos makes them feel that they can and must press onward until their enemies are utterly destroyed. Eights eventually become megalomaniacs (and may be destroyed after they have destroyed others). By contrast, unhealthy Sixes eventually become self-defeating (and may be destroyed by their own fear). Compare G. Gordon Liddy and Mike Tyson (Sixes) with Henry Kissinger and Muhammad Ali (Eights) to understand more about the similarities and differences between these types.

 

[sleuthiness]

I think that test you took is shit. My results came out e3 sx/sp, despite being a so/sp e5 infp.

 

[Zarathustra]

Just came across this gem of a thread when I googled counterphobic 6w5...

***

Apparently these are good tests to take:

9 Types Enneagram Test
Enneagram Institute
Eclectic Energies Enneagram Tests (free)
Similar Minds

***

just came across this thread from intpcentral on 6w5s...

this was kinda of a gem:

If so, how would this type (in your opinions) differ from 5w6?

Generally more practical, integrated with his or her emotions, and engaged with the outside world by nature than a 5w6. A 6w5 would kick a 5w6's (or heck, probably anyone's) butt in a flame war any day. A 6w5's attitude towards people in general is likely to be stronger than that of a 5w6 - loving them or hating them, trusting them deeply or not trusting them farther than they could throw them.

Bolded seemed especially relevant.



***

here's another thread on 6w5s from intpcentral.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

Exellent post, Noon!

Also, to answer to your PM, I'm sure that I'am a sexual 6 but not too much that I'am a 6w5 Sx/So, 6w7 Sx/Sp often fit very well also.

Here are some examples of famous 6w5 Sx/So:

[youtube=OlWxnfmF7yY]Charles Bukowski ENFP[/youtube]
[youtube=Ai7FmkS58yI]Amanda Palmer ENFP[/youtube]
[youtube=TXFOPsC_jnw]Bill Romanowski ISTP[/youtube]
[youtube=Uy3J8tP5QnE]Adolph Hitler ENFJ[/youtube]
[youtube=SXC-Y6ZNG1c]Tupac ENFP[/youtube]
[youtube=t3a9VLNszWY]Alain Soral ISTP[/youtube]
[youtube=kOMyzslIP-o]Jack Kerouac ENFP[/youtube]

There's also a very entertaining video of Charles Bukowski here, even if it's less understable if you don't speak french:http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xak48y_bukowski-charles-apostrophes1_webcam

The only one other 6w5 Sx/So I've met in real life was ENFP. Globally, that variant seems to be like an hardcore ISTP-ENFx combination, but I think an INTJ can be of this variant also.

 

[Moiety]

I get 8 vibes.

 

[InvisibleJim]

I wouldn't say you aren't a 6w5 Z. My studies on it show that the nature of the 6w5 is to manoeuvre around the blocks of their environment, both politically and technically to provide relief from anxiety and over thinking the negative consequences of actions.

 

[Lady_X]

The only one other 6w5 Sx/So I've met in real life was ENFP. Globally, that variant seems to be like an hardcore ISTP-ENFx combination, but I think an INTJ can be of this variant also.

um...but how do you really know they are those types. i'm not really sure that i agree with your bukowski typing.

 

[Zarathustra]

Thanks for the opinions and comments, guys.

Anybody have any idea how to differentiate myself from a 6w5 sx/so, and an 8 sx/so?

Also, at what point does one of the numbers to the left or right of your primary number become a wing?

And what does it mean if you've got two numbers, not adjacent, that are both really high?

Is that supposedly a problem with the test? Or are there such things as 6/8s?

Or is it most likely aggression due to counterphobic 6ness causing me to register high on 8ness?

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

 

[Chloe]

Leave wings aside for a while, just focus on 8 vs. 6.
I dont really know but i've been explained that you can tell them apart by : attacts weaker (6), or only attacts stronger (8) and protects the weak. That's not very nice example because nobody wants to look themselves as chicken who would attack weaker.
now remembered; this info is from discussion i had with enneagram teacher about school bullies: she said it's unlikely he's an 8, bc 8s protect weak people. she said he's 6 most likely

:/

 

[Noon]

Anybody have any idea how to differentiate myself from a 6w5 sx/so, and an 8 sx/so?

I don't know much about 8s in-depth (like the wings, stackings, levels). I've always scanned over because I knew it was one type that I'm absolutely not and don't have much influence from. If I had my books here I'd type some stuff up but I lent them to a friend...

Also, at what point does one of the numbers to the left or right of your primary number become a wing?

Most people have a wing by default, but a few others are a 'pure' type (I think it's rare). For 6s, I think the wing is important because the two types of 6s are so different.

And what does it mean if you've got two numbers, not adjacent, that are both really high?

Is that supposedly a problem with the test? Or are there such things as 6/8s?

Enneagram can be divided several ways and all of those ways can influence your results.

All of the types in a triad can relate to each other in more than a few ways (especially because of wings and lines), so someone who is a 5, for instance, is likely to also score high on 6 and 7 (but less likely with 7, because 5 only goes to 7 when significantly stressed). Someone who is a 2 is likely to score high on 2, 1, 3, 8, and even 4 if very healthy. That's because 1 and 3 are its possible wings, 3 is another heart type, 8 is the disintegration point, and 4 is an integration point.

They are also split up into Positive Outlook (2, 7, 9), Competency (1, 3, 5), and Reactive (4, 6, 8). Someone scoring high in 4 and 6 implies "reactive"! Someone scoring high in 1 and 3 implies "highly concerned with competency". Someone scoring high in 2, 6, 9, 3, and 7 might imply "optimistic approval-seeking extrovert", and that would imply the true type is something like 3 (believes in self and future opportunities, desires a positive image, just goes after what they want). Probably a bad example, but... I think that the connections you can make with test results are nearly endless.

The variants can make you come up high in certain types too, due to the traits associated with average-level types. Self-preservation is stereotypically types like 5 and 6, for instance. Social is stereotypically types like 2 and 3. That doesn't mean it always is, just that the test might make that association because it's only a test.

Or is it most likely aggression due to counterphobic 6ness causing me to register high on 8ness?

I think this is a likely answer. Phobic 6s tend to score high on 9 while counter-phobic tend to score high on 8.

 

[highlander]

Thanks for the opinions and comments, guys.

Anybody have any idea how to differentiate myself from a 6w5 sx/so, and an 8 sx/so?

Also, at what point does one of the numbers to the left or right of your primary number become a wing?

And what does it mean if you've got two numbers, not adjacent, that are both really high?

Is that supposedly a problem with the test? Or are there such things as 6/8s?

Or is it most likely aggression due to counterphobic 6ness causing me to register high on 8ness?

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

I have thought before you might be an 8 sx. but that may be projection. I don't know how to differentiate between the two you mention but I can see things in you that I see in myself. I think the wing stuff probably works for most people but for me personally, it doesn't resonate at all.

After years of being skeptical about it, I've come to the conclusion that this enneagram is pretty good stuff - worth investigating. It gets into the darker side of your personality and helps you understand some secrets about what can hold you back or propel you forward.

 

[Zarathustra]

Enneagram can be divided several ways and all of those ways can influence your results.

All of the types in a triad can relate to each other in more than a few ways (especially because of wings and lines), so someone who is a 5, for instance, is likely to also score high on 6 and 7 (but less likely with 7, because 5 only goes to 7 when significantly stressed). Someone who is a 2 is likely to score high on 2, 1, 3, 8, and even 4 if very healthy. That's because 1 and 3 are its possible wings, 3 is another heart type, 8 is the disintegration point, and 4 is an integration point.

They are also split up into Positive Outlook (2, 7, 9), Competency (1, 3, 5), and Reactive (4, 6, 8). Someone scoring high in 4 and 6 implies "reactive"! Someone scoring high in 1 and 3 implies "highly concerned with competency". Someone scoring high in 2, 6, 9, 3, and 7 might imply "optimistic approval-seeking extrovert", and that would imply the true type is something like 3 (believes in self and future opportunities, desires a positive image, just goes after what they want). Probably a bad example, but... I think that the connections you can make with test results are nearly endless.

The variants can make you come up high in certain types too, due to the traits associated with average-level types. Self-preservation is stereotypically types like 5 and 6, for instance. Social is stereotypically types like 2 and 3. That doesn't mean it always is, just that the test might make that association because it's only a test.

All good info, thanks.

I think this is a likely answer. Phobic 6s tend to score high on 9 while counter-phobic tend to score high on 8.

Got it. Good to know. Thanks.

After years of being skeptical about it, I've come to the conclusion that this enneagram is pretty good stuff - worth investigating. It gets into the darker side of your personality and helps you understand some secrets about what can hold you back or propel you forward.

Yeah, I've largely ignored it up til now, choosing to focus on MBTI, but now I feel I've got a pretty good grasp of the latter, and I certainly don't think it's an all-encompassing system by any means, so learning about other systems, and especially gaining knowledge of the various ways the MBTI types tend to manifest within the enneagram system, seems like it would be very enlightening.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

Here are some Sx/So 8 if you want to compare.

[youtube=OEFfWs8xL4s]Frank Sinatra 8w7 Sx/So[/youtube]
[youtube=BEX1byJrwAU]P!nk 8w7 Sx/So[/youtube]
[youtube=FJ-ZTKMaWoA]Queen Latifah 8w7 Sx/So[/youtube]
[youtube=67VwRMTxzx0]Billy Idol 8w7 Sx/So[/youtube]

[youtube=iRhkD_OA4Ik]James Brown 8w9 Sx/So[/youtube]
[youtube=PbUtL_0vAJk]Martin Luther King 8w9 Sx/So[/youtube]

 

[Moiety]

that would imply the true type is something like 3 (believes in self and future opportunities, desires a positive image, just goes after what they want).

What do you mean by true type?

 

[Noon]

What do you mean by true type?

The type the person actually is instead of just what they test as.
Again, it was probably a bad example... Basically just trying to use several of the grouping traits to get a generalized understanding.

 

[Moiety]

I'm sorry, I'm not following, which person?

 

[Speed Gavroche]

um...but how do you really know they are those types. i'm not really sure that i agree with your bukowski typing.

It was on a list of youtube videos associatd with each enneagram types, posted by Blackcat. I suppose peoples are typed according to their behavior, history etc, like for MBTI probably. As for Bukowski, he's always typed as ENFP, seems right to me, but if you've a better guessing, feel free.

 

[Noon]

I'm sorry, I'm not following, which person?

Oh, it's purely hypothetical. Just the hypothetical person taking a test.

 

[Zarathustra]

As for Bukowski, he's always typed as ENFP, seems right to me, but if you've a better guessing, feel free.

I think Bukowski's definitely an NFP, it's just whether he's an introvert or extrovert.

I'm not sure.

Here are some Sx/So 8 if you want to compare.

See, this is what makes it difficult, cuz I definitely do not fit in with the 8w7s, but the 8w9 seems like a realistic possibility.

Speedy, do you happen to know what MBTI types James Brown and MLK are generally considered to be?

***

I found this interesting thread at the enneagram institute about the difference between 6w5s and 8w9s.

Similarities?
Differences?

Both focussed on protecting themselves and their group (family, business, people who agree with their ideals), tendency towards somewhat contentious, 'it's eat or be eaten' outlooks.

6w5s more cautious and socially-aware, focus on rival groups ('them'), desire to support a group to protect self from rival groups, act as the troubleshooter/collaborator, tendency towards suspicion and denouncing others as not really on-side.

8w9s more self-confident and casual, focus on own group, desire to support group as an extension of themselves, act as the protector/leader, tendency towards egocentricity and trying to dominate others.

I just read both descriptions to my girlfriend without telling her which was which, and she thought the 6w5 description fit me better, although both did resonate.

I felt both resonated as well, but I thought the bolded resonated more strongly with me.

I think part of the issue is that I'm kind of an xNTJ, so my greater extroversion and proximity to being an ENTJ probably throws some 8-flavor into my enneagram mix...