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  1. #21
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild horses View Post
    WOW ... these wrokshops are really that intense I would have walked into such a situation completely unaware.. and there was me thinking it was all clapping and powerpoints...! *shocked*
    ya. full of drama. isnt that great?
    i'd really like to participate.

    closest thing to that i have over here is Children of AA's meetings... it almost makes me sad i am not from A's family. lol. damn, how it's possible that among so many dysfunctional family characteristics my family has, i cant find Anonymous group. jk.

    i used to go to "attractive women anonymous" support group. so many beautiful women there that it made me feel ugly <---i guess you can call me CURED now. jk!!!!!
    Last edited by Chloe; 09-24-2010 at 05:21 AM.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Wild horses's Avatar
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    Yea the drama can be great... I agree... esp if it's someone elses HAHAHA I don't know if they do Ennegram workshops nearby... i'm sure they do I'll have to look into it! I think that it's possibly because ennegram seems to be a system focused on behaviour and particulary how react in times of stress... It's like MBTI is our personality and Ennegram is how that personality is expressed in various situations! Hence it lends itself more to this kind of workshop.. talking about past trauma etc! It's funny that as an ENFP I should really wanna go and talk about all my issues! However as a 7 I like to run away from such things and to derail negative feeling by constant stimulation and activity and so in situations my personality and the way I react to stress seems to be at loggerheads... hence I don't mind it if I don't have to speak to much about the past but once I get into these kinda situations I usually excel and enjoy talking about all my feelings HAHAHA

    I remember about a year or so ago I went to see a homepathy guy (Homeopathist!?) because I hadn't slept for like 4 days or 5 days or maybe like 1/2 hr here or there... and it was part of a pattern... no sleeping for a couple of days sleep for one day then no sleep again! So he tried to delve into all this past issues stuff... but by the end of the session HE ended up telling me all about his past issues! HAHAHA That always happens! HEE HEE
    ... couldn't drag me away

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  3. #23
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Is there a site to find these? I just want to go to a place to discuss the enneagram really in this fashion. All I've found are classes that last 6 days, and cost around ~$1500.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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  4. #24
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    This past weekend I attended the first weekend of an intensive Enneagram seminar done in the narrative tradition. My mother had actually suggested it initially, and I signed up without realizing that two of the three days were 12 hours (9am to 9pm).

    Still, I enjoyed getting to spend time with my mother at the seminar, and also enjoyed knowing someone else at the seminar (knowing someone helps act as a buffer/bridge when interacting with a new group). It also helps to be able have someone to post process with.

    While the other people (around 20) at the seminar were mostly older than me, I found them more interesting and "real" than many people I meet. They were, by and large, open and engaging folks who are willing to be open about their issues in order to give insight into enneagram types.

    Since this workshop was in the narrative tradition, a big part of the workshop involved type panel sessions. A type panel involves having 3-5 people of the same enneagram type who were interviewed about the perspective, issues, strengths and weaknesses of their type. The panels help give one insight into the energy and and issues of a given type. Given that there were only 20 people across 9 types, everyone at the seminar served on a panel, with "ringers" brought in from the local community as needed to fill in the gaps.

    Some quick notes on the various type panels:

    Type 1: I actually really enjoyed the type 1s this time around. They had a great sense of humor, and were direct and enjoyable. It's nice to see more approachable, self-aware 1s. Still, they did make it clear that however critical a 1 may be to others, they are more critical of themselves. The 1s also made it clear than the anger and criticism aren't any fun for them.

    Type 2: Type 2s remain one of the more opaque types to me. Still, their pain (like the pain of many other types) was palpable. I identified with wanting to help others and being tuned into the emotions of those around one. Listening to the 2s also gave me a bit more sympathy for my twin brother (who I believe is a 2) and his relationship with his wife.

    Type 3: Type 3ds are definitely go getters, and the energy and can-do attitude are surprisingly attractive. However, like other types, 3s lose an essential connection with themselves. They particularly focus too much on sucess, gaining recognition and getting things done, sometimes at the cost of their themselves, their own needs and own relationships.

    Type 4: I still feel some commonality with these folks (the emotional sensitivity, in particular), but I don't really identify with their coping mechanisms or willingness to amp up the intensity of experience. I do admire the purity of their emotional experience and their willingness to stay in the emotion and ride it out.

    Type 5: I hated being up in front of others to serve on the type 5 panel. I sweated the whole time. I also felt like I wasn't the best example 5, being an INFP with a definitely 4 wing. However, my mother and I were the more direct and socially adept of the 5s, so we did a fair amount of the talking on the five panel between the two of us.

    Type 6: I got a better sense not just of the sense of fear (and that the world is a dangerous place), but also of what a calming, steady presence 6s can have. They know the world is a chaotic place, and a grounded 6 really provides a level of prepared calm that can feel very comforting and safe to others, especially those for whom they feel a responsibility.

    Type 7: The 7s do really bring in the fun, creativity and enjoyment. However, there is definitely a frenetic edge to their energy and their need to keep moving to avoid facing the darker emotions. The 7s at the seminar I would MBTI type as mostly E, N, F and P (although they were not all of the same MBTI type). I did feel like MBTI type would have been somewhat helpful in clarifying which aspects were 7, and which were E, N and P.

    Type 8: I was really surprised by the level of pain and hurt the 8s expressed. The 8s often are punished for the necessary role they often. pay. By standing up for justice and/or pointing out that the emperor has no clothes, they receive punishment and condemnation. I really felt that 8s have one of the hardest rows to hoe. A lot of the 8s had, at some point in their lives, absolutely reached the end of their ropes and only turned to inner work out of absolute desperation.

    Type 9: The Type 9s I still found draining (since they tend to be energy absorbing). By comparison to those 9s (and some 5s) I'm a dynamo of purpose and energy. Still, this set of 9s was pretty functional and definitely weren't on the lower end of functioning. It was also good to hear about the comfort and peace they provide to those around them when functioning well.


    Overall: I was impressed about how open the attendees were about their issues and pain, and what a supportive environment it was. Every type is miserable in its own way, and I definitely felt that about each and every type.

    Also, after this seminar I had far more sympathy for the anger types than I had had previously. Given my history with my 1 father, it has been hard for me to have much sympathy for 1s and 8s in particular. Still, seeing how distraught they themselves feel about the effects of their anger and the price they often pay, my heart absolutely goes out to them.

    Probably the most clarifying thing for me was identifying a one-to-one (sx) instinctual type. I was pretty clear that was my instinctual subtype before the seminar, but it was embarrassingly clear how well I fit. I believe the traits of that subtype, combined with my four wing, helps explain my great emotional awareness and directness compared to some 5s (combined with my INFP MBTI type).

    The other clarifications were:

    • Additional confirmation that I'm not a 4, despite sharing a number of 4-ish characteristics. For example, I usually don't yearn to be where I'm not (or about something I lack, other than a generalized sense of loneliness/isolation/separation). While I'm prone to depression, I really don't feel like I suffer uniquely nor am I uniquely misunderstood.
    • I'm relatively socially functional and outgoing for a 5. I think the one-to-one (sx) aspect helps in connecting to people socially (on the small scale) as do the NFP aspects. However, those aspects can also give others a false impression of me, thinking that the "socially on" version of me is how I always am. Staying in that mode is very draining to me, and I can only be in that mode a small percentage of the time.
    • The enneagram community definitely has a warm, communal, almost "churchy" feel to it (in a positive way). People feel like the enneagram has helped them save relationships and become more sane and functional. Also the emotional openness (including on the panels) creates a feeling that it's okay to be vulnerable and experience real emotion. I may look for an enneagram community in the Boston area.
    • I chose to be "out" at the conference, and that went fine (despite it being in Texas). There were a number of Christians there, but no one openly responded negatively to my being out as a gay man. I really didn't talk about any gay issues, other than refering to relationship issues with my parnter (much as other people did about their spouses).
    • The enneagram absoutely seems to me to be about those defenses that stop us from being present, intimate and vulnerable. It's about unhealthy defense mechanisms and learning how to be aware of them and the way they sabotage our life and relationships. That hard, painful, unpleasant work is where the value of the enneagram lies. That defenses, the negative sides of the types, and how to relax those defenses will be the focus of part 2 of the seminar in a few weeks. I'm both dreading it and looking forward to it.

  5. #25
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    That's very cool... I think I might really enjoy going to one of those things. You wanna let me know next time? Maybe I could work it out.... Or I could just try to find one close by I'm not in the Boston area.
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  6. #26
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    That's very cool... I think I might really enjoy going to one of those things. You wanna let me know next time? Maybe I could work it out.... Or I could just try to find one close by I'm not in the Boston area.
    The one I just went to was in Texas (where my parents live). The previous one I attended was in Cincinnati area (there's a nice Enneagram group there, too). Still, I think the west coast has the most Enneagram events and communities.

  7. #27
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    A few people have messaged me privately and said they were considering going to an enneagram seminar. I'd definitely highly recommend it (taking into consideration cost/time). I think nothing beats a good type panel for getting a good personal, intuitive feel of the various enneagram types. Plus, hearing people talk openly about their issues and struggles helps build empathy in a way little else does.

  8. #28
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    Would you mind going a bit more into how you learned to develop empathy for enneagram 8s...

    I find that one kinda hard...

  9. #29
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    @Seymour, really enjoyed reading your latest post and summary of your recent workshop experience.

    It sounds like this workshop mostly covered the types themselves; did this one or the other one you previously attended devote much time to the instinctual stackings and how those layer into the personas of each of the types?
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  10. #30
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Would you mind going a bit more into how you learned to develop empathy for enneagram 8s...

    I find that one kinda hard...
    I wouldn't say I have a lot of empathy for 8s in the wild, but the 8s on the panel of this seminar opened up about the pain they experience as a result of their compulsions (just as every type suffers). The 8s are often (but not always) motivated to do the right thing: to stand against injustice, to call out those who manipulate the system to their own ends, to stand up against the abuse of power and authority.

    So, the 8s often end up being the ones who pay the price for standing up against things that need to be stopped or called out. Whistleblowers often end up being punished for what they do. Things rarely end well for those who challenge authority head on.

    Secondly, on a personal level, that intolerance for injustice can make it really difficult to maintain a long term relationship. Sooner or later, a close friend or partner is going to do you wrong. Plus, having to always be the strong one limits the kinds of relationships one can have. The 8s talked about trying to find someone strong enough to stand up to them.

    Thirdly, 8s tend to suck at moderation. They often end up in 12 step programs in order to survive. Lacking a self-governor is really not a recipe for long term happiness. One 8 talked about the various ways he'd overdone it. Work, alcohol, overeating, stress, etc... resulting in health problems, trips to the hospital and, eventually, a coma.

    Not good times.

    None of that excuses the damage caused by 8 lashing out in anger, any more than being 5-ish excuses the harm my tendency to withdraw or freeze out does to relationships in my life.

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    @Seymour, really enjoyed reading your latest post and summary of your recent workshop experience.

    It sounds like this workshop mostly covered the types themselves; did this one or the other one you previously attended devote much time to the instinctual stackings and how those layer into the personas of each of the types?
    Well, along with the type panels were instinctual subtype panels (this was two 10 hour days, plus a 7 hour day... there was time to cover some ground). Those were also pretty helpful. A few thoughts about those:

    • Self preservation (sp): comes across as "warm". At its best, sp is about hearth, family and abundance. Typical pastimes include gardening, creating a warm and safe environment for family (however family is defined), building physical things, hosting celebrations with abundant food and drink. Sps are tend to be territorial and respect the territories of others. Words like home, affection, appetite and even survival may resonate for an Sp.
    • Social (so): comes across as "cool". At its best, the social instinct is about maintaining harmonious groups in which all are included and have a clear role to play. Typical pastimes include being members of groups (including groups formed around social causes), often assuming leadership roles. People with the social instinct may also self-define in terms of groups on which they are emphatically not members. Words like ambition, prestige, sacrifice and duty may resonate for an So.
    • One-on-One (sexual or sx): comes across as "hot". At is best, Sx is about intense connection, focus, intimacy and becoming one with others. Typical pastimes vary, but generally will be carried out with intensity. Also, Sxs (especially Sx women) may have difficulties with personal intensity being interpreted as flirting/sexual interest. Words like, masculine/feminine, confidence, union and fascination may resonate for an Sx.


    On a more personal note, the Sps struck me as being kind of self-contained, generous and practical. The Sps as having a kind of cool formality. The Sxs as intense and out-going (toward whomever they were focused upon).

    The one-on-one (sx) panel definitely resonated really strongly for me. I definitely had the eery feeling that someone had been taking notes on my life. Confirmation that I'm one-to-one also helped clarify some things for me.

    I probably identified least with the sp panel (which surprised me)... although it's clear sx is much stronger than the other two for me.

    I found the One-to-One Five (5sx) description range true for me:

    Quote Originally Posted by 5sx
    You bond to special others by sharing confidential information, private knowledge, your energy and even feelings. In these sacred, necessary relationships you don't need to hide or guard your boundaries. Your avarice shows as you move back within yourself for replenishment. You then can treasure the experience in your mind and memory. You release your boundaries of privacy in intense, often physical encounters. Key disclosures are made and treasured for a "lifetime" when recreated in your imagination. These shared confidences assuage the loneliness that comes from isolating yourself from feelings while maintaining your autonomy and power. At your worst, the intense one-to-one sharing can operate like an on-off switch, to the dismay of special others.
    Ouch.

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