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How can an 8 become a 2

Joined
Apr 23, 2009
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1,992
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
8w9
well, 8 minus 6 becomes 2..
Maybe that's not the kind of help your asking for
 

KLessard

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I wonder if that even is far from the truth.

It isn't. My ESTJ type 8 mother is in the Two process, and she is manipulative in trying to be helpful because she wants love and people to care for her. I think she doesn't realize how obvious her manipulation can be at times. She can call like three times a day to chat, and ask if I need anything, but that isn't really her purpose... But this is the nicest she gets, and I honour her efforts in trying to figure out how empathy and true consideration works. It is awkward, but she is trying and making progress. It isn't natural to her after all.

She used to be a very bossy, irascible and controlling person when I was a child.
 

Moiety

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I'm an enneagram 8 ENFP though. I understand empathy just fine. I just wonder how that would translate into being a 2.

Surely they don't intend 8s to become manipulative in order to be healthier (2 being the 8's direction of integration).
 

KLessard

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The average Two type is naturally manipulative in trying to help. So the healthy Eight reaching integration will possibly sport some manipulative Two attitude on the way to self-actualization and slowly get rid of it.

But I know ENFPs dislike hypocrisy and manipulation, so it will probably not show in you when you reach it. That's good. :) You will probably just become deeply helpful, thankful and selfless in your integration. Your strong, leadership-prone temper will be channelled into a kinder way, a way that is easier for other people to work with.
 

Chloe

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actually i agree that integrating parts of 2 as growth of 8 wouldnt make one emotionally manipulative, because, you dont get 2's fixation, you get its good parts.

but title said how can 8 become a 2 and he can with emotional manipulation

klessard, maybe your mother has disintegrated a bit into 2, which can happen too. as 8 you can disintegrate to both; 5 and 2. and int to 2. it depends on theory but some people show negative 5 and 2 characteristics while under stress

anyway.. best advices how to integrate are found in books :)
 

Chloe

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What, are you working for a new age book company now? What about open source ethics, ENFP??

no
i dont know enough to talk about integrating to 2, except obvious advices.

i'd say with a lot of introspection, overcoming fears etc.. i mean, it will come naturaly as you become more healthy and happy.
 

Moiety

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no
i dont know enough to talk about integrating to 2, except obvious advices.

i'd say with a lot of introspection, overcoming fears etc.. i mean, it will come naturaly as you become more healthy and happy.

:shock: Wait, are you answering my question of how to become healthier by saying "don't worry, it will come naturally as you become healthier"? lolz:smile:


I bet I've had more introspection in my life than any other ENFP out there (!), so that is covered (so much so, that I don't even know if I know how to use my Ne anymore). I have no fears. Apart from the fear of wasting all my potential.
 

Chloe

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:shock: Wait, are you answering my question of how to become healthier by saying "don't worry, it will come naturally as you become healthier"? lolz:smile:


hahahhaha- yeah in a way i do. :tongue:

just saying you shouldnt aim to become a 2 you should aim to become healthy. and not by "let me see how do 2s act so i will try acting like that to become more healhty", but with dealing with your real issues, and 2 will show up passively.

i'd say you should look how does extreme 8 behavior manifest in yourself, and WHEN do you act like that, when you are in your extreme it's out of running from some unpleasant feeling... so try dealing with feeling, instead of reacting in your usual way.

also, you didnt say why are you not healthy as you want to be, what's your problem.
 

Moiety

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hahahhaha- yeah in a way i do. :tongue:

just saying you shouldnt aim to become a 2 you should aim to become healthy.

Well, the thread title was not to be taken literally. I assume the people who bother to reply know why an 8 "wants to become" a 2. But yeah I could have phrased it better - how can an 8 integrate into a 2? :)

i'd say you should look how does extreme 8 behavior manifest in yourself, and WHEN do you act like that, when you are in your extreme it's out of running from some unpleasant feeling... so try dealing with feeling, instead of reacting in your usual way.

The 8 descriptions make us sound like psychopaths. I've got to say that the 8s I know...I usually hate them. The list of names in some of the sites talking about 8s make me wanna puke (Denzel Washington?! Sean Penn?! Charlie Brown?! Those guys are dicks! I can be unpolished but I don't exert all that fucking anger onto people). Violence, which seems to be associated with 8s, is also something I've never had problems with - I never really hit anyone in my life after middle school. I hate violence. Even when people want to kick MY ass lool

As far as unpleasant feelings hmm....

You avoid being weak, vulnerable, controlled or manipulated. Secretly, you fear being caught off guard, harmed and/or humiliated. Being mistreated and at the mercy of injustice are among your deepest fears. You resist and defy anything that is imposed upon you. Fearing deprivation, you avoid ever having to go without what you deem essential to your survival. You do everything in your power to avoid being dependent on anyone or anything. You have a distaste for mediocrity and anything that feels contrived.

This was posted on an enneagram site. This is all true apart from the fear of material deprivation. I don't know how one is supposed to deal with it though.


also, you didnt say why are you not healthy as you want to be, what's your problem.

Well to be honest I don't really relate too much to most 8 descriptions. I hate bossing anyone around. Certainly don't think I have the right to lead anyone either.

But it's not that anything is necessarily wrong with me. I just want to be the best person I can be. And they say that is done by acquiring 2 traits. I think I already possess some. When I am like an 8 I identify more with the supposedly integrated 8 descriptions. But I could be missing something. I am consistently confrontational, and not overtly nice or magnanimous.


Anyways, I'm probably a chimera though. ENFPs aren't supposed to be 8s. And 8s aren't supposed to be ENFPs. I seem to neither have the qualities of an ENFP nor the ones of an 8, which is crap!
 

Chloe

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Well, the thread title was not to be taken literally. I assume the people who bother to reply know why an 8 "wants to become" a 2. But yeah I could have phrased it better - how can an 8 integrate into a 2? :)

i took it as joke

The 8 descriptions make us sound like psychopaths. I've got to say that the 8s I know...I usually hate them. The list of names in some of the sites talking about 8s make me wanna puke (Denzel Washington?! Sean Penn?! Charlie Brown?! Those guys are dicks! I can be unpolished but I don't exert all that fucking anger onto people). Violence, which seems to be associated with 8s, is also something I've never had problems with - I never really hit anyone in my life after middle school. I hate violence. Even when people want to kick MY ass lool

ita bc they are maybe different mbti types.


i know i read somewhere that you should ask yourself, as an 8, who am i if I dont have my anger?, what do i have?
bc most people when ask themselves that question about their enneagram type...realize that they put soooooo much into their enneagram types fixation that not much is left.
for type 3 it's "who am i if i dont have my image to protect?" it was scary realization to me, how much i rely on protecting my image and trying to not fail and do what other people want.
i think thats the beginning of integration

also you seem not to understand your type so well, you need to unerstand the fixation in depts, and then figure it out in yourself, parts that you have.
if you want i can scan you parts of maitri's book about 8s. (after all i have w2 :D ) she can sound like from other planet but parts are really really good and can make you figure better 8s parts of yourself
 

KLessard

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Charlie Brown as 8 ??????????????????????

No way.
 

Lady_X

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i can totally see it...just use all of that natural protection instinct to help others through some big powerful 8 style crusade or organization.
 

Moiety

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i can totally see it...just use all of that natural protection instinct to help others through some big powerful 8 style crusade or organization.

My life is a crusade. No one wants my help though. Apparently I lack consideration and am too much of a moral perfectionist.
 

Lady_X

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maybe you should change what you attempt to help people with and they'd be more receptive.
 
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