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  1. #1
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Default I don't buy the Enneagram Wings theory

    That is, it seems like there is no need for subtypes if you use MBTI/Jungian Functions to explain variations. It also seems a bit illogical (to me) for one of two adjacent personality types to affect the basic Enneagram type. Why does it need to be adjacent?

    If we assume the "enneagram is based on the principle that everyone constructs defense mechanisms to deal with the real and perceived injuries inflicted by life," and the enneagram is the defense mechanism, then the core personality would likely be defined by something else - like their functions. In that situation, there is no need for a subtype.

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  3. #3
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Great thread!

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    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    That it, it seems like there is no need for subtypes if you use MBTI/Jungian Functions to explain variations. It also seems a bit illogical (to me) for one of two adjacent personality types to affect the basic Enneagram type. Why does it need to be adjacent?

    If we assume the "enneagram is based on the principle that everyone constructs defense mechanisms to deal with the real and perceived injuries inflicted by life," and the enneagram is the defense mechanism, then the core personality would likely be defined by something else - like their functions. In that situation, there is no need for a subtype.


    Finaly someone!!!! I dont buy it either.

    For example, 5w4.. how would that person look like?

    4 - thrives on emotions to distract attention from real wounds.
    5 - avoids emotions by detaching

    so how does 5w4 person function? I cant see it.

    People are asigning MBTI traits to wings. ex. 5w4 would be INFP who is 5. But if he is 5 he doesnt have, I bet, 4s fixation at all. It contradicts 5's.

    All people I talked about in detail about their E-type didnt have a wing after we discussed it for long. :/

  5. #5
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    I'm unable to determine my wing really, as I recognize myself in both the 4w3 and 4w5 profile, tbh. I'd appreciate any kind of help on this
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chloé View Post
    Finaly someone!!!! I dont buy it either.

    For example, 5w4.. how would that person look like?

    4 - thrives on emotions to distract attention from real wounds.
    5 - avoids emotions by detaching

    so how does 5w4 person function? I cant see it.

    People are asigning MBTI traits to wings. ex. 5w4 would be INFP who is 5. But if he is 5 he doesnt have, I bet, 4s fixation at all. It contradicts 5's.

    All people I talked about in detail about their E-type didnt have a wing after we discussed it for long. :/
    I need to introduce you to a few people I know.
    Is it paradoxical? You bet.. is it real.. for sure.
    Can I do it?.. UH huh..

    When does the behavior associated with fear, insecurity and pain ever make sense???

    Just watch people behave during a break up for an example of what I am talking about.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    I need to introduce you to a few people I know.
    Is it paradoxical? You bet.. is it real.. for sure.
    Can I do it?.. UH huh..

    When does the behavior associated with fear, insecurity and pain ever make sense???

    Just watch people behave during a break up for an example of what I am talking about.

    did you understand my post? i am not sure.

    can you just describe people you are talking about, i am really interested.

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    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    I need to introduce you to a few people I know.
    Is it paradoxical? You bet.. is it real.. for sure.
    Can I do it?.. UH huh..

    When does the behavior associated with fear, insecurity and pain ever make sense???

    Just watch people behave during a break up for an example of what I am talking about.
    I actually believe the Enneagram is pretty important but just don't buy into the wings part of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chloé View Post
    did you understand my post? i am not sure.

    can you just describe people you are talking about, i am really interested.
    Well you can read the INFJ door slam thread for a good start.


    I have a friend.. who is so gooey and warm, and yet she is unaware of it until hours later, sometimes days. she has feelings and reacts to them. But only becomes intellectually and self aware of those reactions a later time.

    I hope she doesn't mind me sharing this.. but then is no way you have a clue who I am talking about.

    She described a situation where when people would phone, her partner was able to tell who was on the phone just by her reaction,tone and enthusiasm,
    He was aware of a very obvious change in her emotional state, she herself had no clue this was happening.
    She also would not show similar things when he phoned. Thus unaware of her own lack of enthusiasm for her partner, who, in her case had given her reasons to mistrust him.
    That is detachment to your feelings.

    Does that make sense? It does to me.

  10. #10
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    That it, it seems like there is no need for subtypes if you use MBTI/Jungian Functions to explain variations. It also seems a bit illogical (to me) for one of two adjacent personality types to affect the basic Enneagram type. Why does it need to be adjacent?
    The Enneagram is based on three dimensions: the two explained in Magic Poriferan's thread (behavior and emotion), and then the triads (that is, the Head, Heart and Instinct triad). The wings are adjacent to each other because either they're in the same triad, or else they're linked by behavior (1/2, 4/5, 7/8). The problem might lie in the fact that there are nine types and not 27, which forces a looser interpretation of them than the three variables would suggest, but they nevertheless make more sense in their original form than MP's altered form. Two, for example, makes no sense without being in the Heart triad. A very egocentric Pursuing Anticipator couldn't possibly belong to the Helper archetype.
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