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  1. #31
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chloé View Post
    i dont relate to (2) wanting for people to depend on me... or (4) wanting to be special and unique.

    i relate to some traits like emotional, helps people.. that 2 and 4 have, but those are irrelevant to really relating to e-type imo, because i have them because i am NF, regardless of enneagram
    I think that wings are more about attaching the core drive of each type in a complementary way to your main type. If I'm not mistaken, 3w4s want to simply be the best, whereas 3w2s want to be admired by others.
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  2. #32
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    You're not alone... I don't buy into the Enneagram PERIOD because it has absolutely no explanatory value or useful insights into people. Others see it's relevance but when I read the Enneagram descriptions all I find myself saying is "so what? how does it help me understand THAT person?". Maybe I really ought to give it a fresh new look, but to me I find it about as useful as knowing a person's favorite color - it's not telling you a whole lot.
    It's interesting. The reason I initially was interested in MBTI was because it was a system that would help me to understand other people. The reason I'm interested in Enneagram is to better understand myself. It seems more interesting/useful in a personal context and from a development perspective.

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  3. #33
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    The arrows do indeed seem to go in different directions in different pictures. I'm sure this is pretty damn basic for some of you.


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  4. #34
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    What 3 wing disintegrates towards 9?
    Both. But when we say that 3 disintegrate in 9, that does'nt mean they become 9. The integration and disintegration concept don't mean that you adopt behavior of other types, it just explain the working of your type with symbolic arrows. When we say "the 3 disintegrate in 9", itis just for explain the 3's ability to forget their own need in favor of what it's considered "successful", their hability to repress their emotions and their inability to meet their actual personal need under stress. When they are really more entranced, they adopt some 9 behavior, turn in circles, don't know how to act etc.

    The idea wick explain wings is that we can integrate and disintegrate toward both directions like it is explained here: fineenn9styls1.html (read the "fine distinctions" stuff). An healthy 5, for example, can experiment healthy connection to 8 and 7. The wing is what make you more prone to move in one direction than another.

    So, to answer to your question, the 3w2 disintegrate more in 9 under stress, because they want more to please to peoples. Become more accomodating, can try to be seducive, under extreme stress, can even be wussbag. Are more prone than 3w4 to foreget their own need in favor to the needs of others.

    3w4 disintegrate more in 6 under stress, they are less concerned with peoples than 3w2 and use more their mental abilities under stress. 3w4 become paranoiud about what could prevent him to achieve success, feel the need to engage on a track toward success and to not deviate, loyalty to enterprise, boss of family because of this. When counterphobic, can also become atracted with iconoclast point of view and new creative approach or anti authoritarist, because thay fear to be banal.

    When relaxed, the 3w2 move more on 6, 2ness push them to form bonds and commitments with peoples, to form cooperative environments and are less competitive. They can also become more intelectual and critical, play the devil's advocate instead of consider their first impression about things, become mùore original and creative etc.

    The 3w4 is more pushed to 9 when they relaxed, they chill out, are more opened to peoples and warm. They take more time to be interested with other peoples, consider their position, consider question at all the angles instead of just consider their first impression about things. Healthy connection to 9 bring introspection and creativity, wich are currrent issues with 3w4.

    . If I'm not mistaken, 3w4s want to simply be the best, whereas 3w2s want to be admired by others
    3w4 and 3w2 want both to be the best and to be admired by peoples. To be succesful and to be the best is the same thing for them and they have a hard time to see the difference. The seek success by seeking a fiel or a game where there's somebody to beat. Defeat of adversary and admiration of peoples are actual proof of they success, and it would be diffficult for them to identify a success by themselves without that. Their challenge is justly to meet goals who are more personal, and not just presented as succesful by their social envronment. 3w2 and 3w4 are differences of means, not of ends. 3w2 seek they can't be admired if they are not essential to peoples, 3w4 that thay can't be admired if they are banal.
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  5. #35
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    ^all that would me make me 3w2 if i really had to pick wing.

  6. #36
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    ...And it confirms 3w2 for me. Thanks Gav!
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Chloé View Post
    thing is that when you fight with E4 he starts to make drama, likes attention, and goes "poor me", its all about me.
    when you fight with E5 he withdraws and wants you to leave him alone, doesnt want to share informations.

    so how does 5w4 acts when fighting..? cant see that overlaping that easy.
    You need a better imagination then.

    "Oh poor me, I'll throw a mild hissy fit and then lock myself away from the world as much as possible while I write bad, self-absorbed poetry about how defective and inhuman I am."
    Or he could make a big drama then withdraw and retreat to his private little world to go "poor me"...weeping over his wounds with self-pity, self-hatred and hatred of the world.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostlove View Post
    Or he could make a big drama then withdraw and retreat to his private little world to go "poor me"...weeping over his wounds with self-pity, self-hatred and hatred of the world.
    That all is 4! Poor me, self pity, and that kind of retreating is only 4s trait, not 5s.

  9. #39
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostlove View Post
    Or he could make a big drama then withdraw and retreat to his private little world to go "poor me"...weeping over his wounds with self-pity, self-hatred and hatred of the world.
    That sounds like 4. 5w4 is more like becoming pissed off and throwing a "poor me" fit, then backing away from your emotions to prevent them from overwhelming you. Like -- contemplating suicide one moment, and then time travel paradoxes 5 minutes later.
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  10. #40
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    That sounds like 4. 5w4 is more like becoming pissed off and throwing a "poor me" fit, then backing away from your emotions to prevent them from overwhelming you. Like -- contemplating suicide one moment, and then time travel paradoxes 5 minutes later.
    i like this example better...

    though usually one is so much stronger (4 in this case) than the other that wing looks irrelevant. at least i didnt see it in real person yet, to make both reactions relevant.

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