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  1. #21
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    All the types mirror each other in some way.. That is why degrees of health are so important in Ennea typing. You can't be 2w5 because 2w3 or 2w1 already covers it. and your level of health will take you towards a different type.

    Type 6 goes 8 counter-phobic and 9 in a state of health.

    So maybe a type 2 needs to look at their state of health to see if there is a level that starts to look like type 5.. they would still have their wing as 3 or 1 but their health will be taking them somewhere else.

    This site is useful in describing the stages of health

    you are now dealing with 54 subtypes for one type.. pretty elaborate if you ask me.

    Nine Personalities
    I get that. The instinctual varient (SX,SP,SO) makes a lot of sense to me too. The important things about Enneagram seem to relate to level of health and how you:
    - Slide in the direction of the arrows if stressed or pressured and incorporate the lesser qualities of the type in the connecting position
    - Slide against the arrows when feeling secure or are growing and incorporate the higher qualities of the type in the connecting position.




    It's just the wings...

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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I get that. The instinctual varient (SX,SP,SO) makes a lot of sense to me too. The important things about Enneagram seem to relate to level of health and how you:
    - Slide in the direction of the arrows if stressed or pressured and incorporate the lesser qualities of the type in the connecting position
    - Slide against the arrows when feeling secure or are growing and incorporate the higher qualities of the type in the connecting position.




    It's just the wings...
    Here is a description or definition

    The enneagram is a model that necessarily simplifies the vast complexity of personality. But the model can be refined, polished, and tuned, until deeper and deeper levels of detail become visible.

    One useful refinement is to subdivide each of the nine types into two sub-flavors reflecting the two adjacent types, which are called wing types. This is possible because a person's personality type is not a single number, but rather a highly precise combination of two adjacent types. Each one of us lives at a spot somewhere on the edge of the circle, and most of us are not exactly on top of one of the points, but rather somewhere between two adjacent points.

    There is much difference between the two subflavors of each basic type. In particular, it is useful to notice how the differing stress and balance points of the wing affect the overall flavor of each type, making the highly integrated and highly stressed states distinctly different for the two wing-flavors.


  3. #23
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    There is much difference between the two subflavors of each basic type. In particular, it is useful to notice how the differing stress and balance points of the wing affect the overall flavor of each type, making the highly integrated and highly stressed states distinctly different for the two wing-flavors.
    Hmmmm....

    Maybe it depends on how strong of a wing you have. Maybe some people have no wing.

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  4. #24
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    The meaning of wing is more spiritual than of a mechanic reality. And it's the same for the concepts of integration and disintegration. We currently say that an enneatype integrate in one direction and disintegrate in another direction. 4, for example, disintegrate in 2 and integrate in 1. But it actually seem that we can move in both direction in both situations. I've read that the wing actually indicate in what direction we are the more prone to move under stress, wich is actually, the number we seen folllowing the direction indicated by the wing.

    A 6w7, for example, tend more to move in 9 under stress: they are not certain of anything, ar opened to every type of ideas and need to considerate every point of view or angles of an issue. Don't know how to act. Turn in circles. Stuck with routines. Eventually passive-agressive and obssesive, prone to fantazy. They became also very meek and accomodant, often of a self-pres subtype, characteried by a personal warmth to disarm potential hostility. While 6w5 disintegrate more in 3 under stress, their attention is more focused on one point at the same time, and to become more knowledgable and efficient in order to secure themselves. They are more likely to stick on a point and to not deviate in order to cope with their anxiety. When more relaxed, 6w7 integrate more often in 3, tons of creative projects, see life large, be positive. While the 6w5 become more inquisitive more open to new ideas, more warm, more creative.

    An 8w7 move more to 5 under stress. Become overly mental. Vindicative. Move from avid to stingy. Withdrawn from peoples to avoid responsability and guilty, romantise isolation, consider that it's a privilege to receive attention from him. Fearful and paranoid. Find a refuge in his ideas, inquisitivity and intelectual interest as an other way to confront with their fears. 8w9 move more to 2 under stress. Stress reanimate fear of loss and separation. Feel co-dependent, but don't want to appear weak. Blame peoples for betrayal, megalomanic, can cope with their fear of separation by seduction, sensuality or agressive sexuality. When more relaxed, 8w7 move more to 2, are generous and gregarious, larger than life and lover. While a 8w9 move more to 5, economise his energy, strong quiet and quiet force and self-confidence, more inquisitive. Contrary to popular belief, Darth Vader is not 8w9 but an 8w7 disintegrate in 5, and James Brown was a 8w9, not a 8w7.

    9w8 move more to 6 under stress, self-forgetting of their need, they fit in, but are also prone to occasional outburst of anti-autoritharism. While 9w1 feel a need to do things perfectly and move more to 3. When relaxed, 9w8 move more to 3, using their wing 8 to become achiver and performer and impact the world. While 9w1 work more to apply their perfectionism to collective causes. 9w8 is "I have a lot of potential energy...a lot of potential assertive energy, just wait a little and don't piss me off" 9w1 is "I have a lot of potential energy...a lot of potential compliant energy, just leave me the time to do do things perfectly".

    I could contiue, but the idea is that you can determine your wing by seeing toward wich direction you are the most prone to integrate or dinsintegrate. If you are a 4 and move more toward 2 under stress and integrate in 1, you are a 4w3, if it's the contrary, you are a 4w5.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

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    E=60% S=55% T=70% P=80%

    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  5. #25
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    What 3 wing disintegrates towards 9?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    7w6 > 4w3 > 9w8, weakside sp/so

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  6. #26
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    The meaning of wing is more spiritual than of a mechanic reality. And it's the same for the concepts of integration and disintegration. We currently say that an enneatype integrate in one direction and disintegrate in another direction.

    I could contiue, but the idea is that you can determine your wing by seeing toward wich direction you are the most prone to integrate or dinsintegrate. If you are a 4 and move more toward 2 under stress and integrate in 1, you are a 4w3, if it's the contrary, you are a 4w5.
    Wait. So, you're saying the direction of the arrows changes if the wing changes? That would mean you have to have a wing for this model to make sense. I thought I'd seen that some people do not have a wing.

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  7. #27
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    ....
    i dont think i have a wing, but i disintegrate to 9 and integrate to 6 (though some negative stuff / disintegration from 6 i also pick up.) what wing would that make me ?

    i dont relate to 2 or 4 at all....

  8. #28
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    You're not alone... I don't buy into the Enneagram PERIOD because it has absolutely no explanatory value or useful insights into people. Others see it's relevance but when I read the Enneagram descriptions all I find myself saying is "so what? how does it help me understand THAT person?". Maybe I really ought to give it a fresh new look, but to me I find it about as useful as knowing a person's favorite color - it's not telling you a whole lot.

  9. #29
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chloé View Post
    i dont think i have a wing, but i disintegrate to 9 and integrate to 6 (though some negative stuff / disintegration from 6 i also pick up.) what wing would that make me ?

    i dont relate to 2 or 4 at all....
    Kinda weird for an Fi type to not relate to either of those...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Teacher (Idyllic), ESE-IEI (Si-ESFj), SLue|I|, Sanguine-Melancholy
    Sage, True Neutral (Chaotic Good), Type III Anti-Hero
    Inventive > Artistic > Leisurely > Dramatic
    7w6 > 4w3 > 9w8, weakside sp/so

    Dark Worker (Sacrificing)
    Freewheeling Designer

    Hayekian Asshole


  10. #30
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    i dont relate to (2) wanting for people to depend on me... or (4) wanting to be special and unique.

    i relate to some traits like emotional, helps people.. that 2 and 4 have, but those are irrelevant to really relating to e-type imo, because i have them because i am NF, regardless of enneagram, and i dont relate to motivations behind those actions of 2/4.. for ex. helping people

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