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  1. #11
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    This makes sense. I know being a 4w5 so/sp is pretty strange and contradictory. But it does explain a lot about my behaviour.

    Are you thinking of expanding on this theory BlackCat, about how this stuff might manifest etc?
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  2. #12
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    9-

    sp- Positive
    so- Negative
    sx- Positive

    What do you think? Do you think the wings of the other types affect it a lot too?
    Well the descriptions for sx variants for type 9 seems kind of...off? Compare the sx description for 8 sx to 9 sx as an example.

    Sexual/Self-pres

    This subtype is a very charismatic. They have a very assertive energy and they demand attention. The lust of the Eight combines with the sexual instinct to make one of the most fiery of the combinations of all of the enneatypes, especially if Seven is the dominant wing. Sexual/self-pres Eights aren’t afraid to tell you what they think. The "can do" attitude that the other subtypes have is now intertwined with an outward passionate storm of energy. The sexual/self-pres Eight will be similar to the self-pres/sex Eight with respect to interests and attachment to close friends and family, but the intensity level is augmented. Since the sexual instinct is first, these Eights usually don't let an opportunity pass by to connect with those they find interesting. They can sense the power in any situation and they like to challenge people. They can enjoy making others react to them, keeping others on their toes, to find out what makes them tick. They are likely to use humor to accomplish this. When sex/self-pres Eights are unbalanced, they are very quick to anger and have a difficult time controlling their impulses.
    Sexual/Social

    This subtype of Eight manifests as the alpha male and alpha female. They demand everyone's attention, and usually get it. They can be very charismatic. The assertive energy of the Eight combines with the assertive energy of the sexual instinct. With the self-preservational instinct least developed, this subtype has a lot of extroverted energy. This type isn’t afraid to go after what they want in life. The fixation on lust and the emphasis on control combine with great intensisty. At times, it’s almost as if their energy gets ahead of them, which can cause problems. They often have a vision of the future, but they have their blind spots too. They can harness a tremendous amount of energy for change, but at the same time be unaware of the fallout they might encounter because of their sometimes excessive self-assertion.
    It does kind of sound very 8 like in description. But when you start reading the description of 9 sx

    Sexual/Self-pres


    The energy of the sexual instinct is at odds with the dominant type Nine energy and makes for a conflicted subtype. These Nines can appear to have a stronger connection to Three, for this reason. The assertive fiery energy engages in a constant push-pull with the calm peace-seeking energy of the Nine. This subtype can have an intense relationship with their environment. They are often drawn to solo sports or to an active engagement with nature that involves some risk and exertion. These Nines are drawn to peak experiences. They might enjoy outdoor solo sports or engaging in nature by way of hiking, rock climbing etc.

    With the social instinct last in the stacking, there can be an on/off quality when it comes to relating and these Nines are often somewhat moodier than the other subtypes. As with the self-pres/sexual, this subtype might not engage socially with the same smoothness as other subtypes of Nine. They seem to go towards others in a staccato fashion - they connect in bursts, then withdraw.

    When it comes to intimate relationships, this subtype can be needy. The merging of the Nine combines with the intensity of the sexual instinct to create a subtype that will always be in danger of losing themselves in a relationship. Their boundaries for themselves and their partner can become blurred which can lead to conflicts. This subtype might have a hard time judging clearly the degree to which they have merged.
    Sexual/Social


    This subtype of Nine may appear least like a stereotypical Nine because the outward sexual and social energies obscure some of the withdrawing and "zoning out" tendencies of the Nine. These Nines are the most connected and assertive of the subtypes of Nine, especially when it comes to relationships. There is still some internal struggle, as with the sexual/self-pres, but overall there is less of a tendency to withdraw. With the self-pres instinct last, this subtype can neglect self-preservational needs in favor of the intensity of their sexual instinct's pursuits. Individuals of this subtype could easily be mistaken for the dominant wing, because the sexual energy tends to flow in a manner similar to the energy of the wing. A Nine with a One wing would therefore appear more One-like and a Nine with Eight might be mistaken for an Eight.

    The central conflict for these Nines will still be in the realm of close intimate relationships and these Nines will have many of the same issues and challenges as the sexual/self-pres Nines.
    It starts talking about the most conflicted type or the least like a stereotypical 9. I'm a sx myself, but that description sounds strange for a 9 don't you think so?

  3. #13
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    Yes, I think your instinctual variants play a huge part in how your E-type manifests itself.

    I'm 4w5 sp/sx, and I think the leading sp sorts of tames my 4-ness a lot. I mean, if I were sx/sp, I'd be a lot more dramatic and emotional. I always feel this push-pull energy between 4 and 5, and sp and sx, which is both fun and frustrating at the same time.

  4. #14
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Well, I think you list of correlation is valuable only in the sense that peoples of diferents enneagram identify the most, but not as how they truly are. Plus, there's a sort of current misconception about how different instincts are:Sx is assertive, Sp is withdrawing, So is compliant, but this is not the fundamental concerns of different instincts. The fundamental concerns of diferents instincts are basically:

    Sx= I need intensity, deep connections in my one-to-one relationships

    So= I need to connect with a significant larger social sphere

    Sp= I need my food on the table

    So, I understand why Sx tend to be assertive and why So tend to be compliant. So, compliant types like 1, 2, phobic 6 may tend strongly to identify with So. Assertive types 3, 7 and 8 may tend strongly to identify with Sx because it's associate more with assertivity than with concern about one-to-one relationship and 5 and 9 tend strongly to identify with Sp because it's associate more with "withdrawing" than with concern about safety and practicality. And I think it's often innacurate.

    Problematic of instincts can't be separated from the dominant fixation of the enneatype and all these stuff about assertive, withdrawn, etc, are not that simple. Self-pres peoples are often very, very assertive and independent. It can be true for sef-pres 3. Self-pres 2 and self-pres 4 are very combative and assertive, and more ofen of the 3 wing. Self-pres 7 are consumate materialistic and fun lover, usually true party animals with lots of friends. Self-pres 8 are not less assertive than other 8. For the social instinct, Social 2 and 3 are usually very assertive, achieve fame prestige.

    Social 4, 5 (especially of the 4 wing), counterphobic 6, 7, 8 are often totally anti-social. Social 4 are often withdrawing, and not compliant, characterised by a strong social shame who drive them to hide, many 4s are actually of the social subtype. Social 9s are often withdrawing, because they fit in, but are disengaged at the same time.

    And for the assertivity of the Sx, sexual 5 are'nt often assertive, they are the most part of the time withdrawing and try to seek intimacy from time to time. For 9, the concept of instincts is "in wich territory are they self-forgetting of they need and narcotize". Self-pres 9 narcotize by consumptions of food and material things, social 9 narcotize by merging with groups, and sexual 9 narcotize by forming union with a mate. The sexual instinct is about one-to-one relationship, with an aspiration to assertivity, wich can be in conflict with the dominant fixation, so, sexual 9s are often not assertive at all, prefering to stay cuddle up with their mate watching movies at a saturday night than be outgoing and seek for a large rocking party.

    He would seek for intensity if he took distance with his doiminant fixation. Sexual 7s, them, are often very intense, but they can be afraid of commitment and fear to satisfy their desire for a deep connection with a significant other. But if the 7 take distance with his fixation about keeping options opened, it is possible.

    So, I think that list of correlation is a shit and can't be taken seriously. Actually, the most part of the time, peoples are self-pres first, because it's the area where they feel, as a geral rule, the stronger need to survive, whatever what their enneatype is.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

    Chaotic Neutral

    E=60% S=55% T=70% P=80%

    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  5. #15
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    I've also thought about instinct/enneagram correlations and here's my thoughts.


    1-
    sp- Positive
    so- Positive, ones often have social issues they feel strongly about and are often concerned with social appropriateness
    sx- Negative

    2-

    sp- Negative
    so- Positive
    sx- Positive, some twos are rather seductive

    3-

    sp- Negative
    so- Positive. I think the 'stereotypical' social climber is a three
    sx- Neutral

    4w3-

    sp- Negative
    so- Positive
    sx- Neutral

    4w5-

    sp-Positive
    so- Negative
    sx- Positive

    5-

    sp- Positive
    so- Negative (I'm a social five and I feel like an oxymoron)
    sx- Negative

    Note: Most social fives are 5w6; most sexual fives are 5w4

    6 (phobic)

    sp- Positive
    so- Positive
    sx- Negative

    So much variation in sixes. I think the sx 6s are more likely to be counterphobic than the other two subtypes.

    7-

    sp- Negative
    so- Neutral
    sx- Positive

    8-

    sp- Neutral
    so- Negative
    sx- Positive

    9-

    sp- Positive
    so- Neutral
    sx- Neutral
    INtp
    5w6 or 9w1 sp/so/sx, I think
    Ravenclaw/Hufflepuff
    Neutral Good
    LII-Ne




  6. #16
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    This makes sense. I know being a 4w5 so/sp is pretty strange and contradictory. But it does explain a lot about my behaviour.

    Are you thinking of expanding on this theory BlackCat, about how this stuff might manifest etc?
    It is strange and contradictory but it also gives me a very nice balance and motivation. My SO pushes me to actually fulfill my deeply held values and ideals and be somewhat reasonable about accomplishing it in the external, larger environment. I dislike the idea of having my entire life be about one person or even myself. It's got to be involve the whole world. My SP protects me and makes me very self-sufficient and self-reliable. My SX is last, which is good because the INFP 4 in me makes me very passionate and emotional as it is. I can't handle any more 'fire and flames'. It works very well for me, although the 'social shame' runs quite deep.

    I think you're the only one who's identical to me, SKross.

    So...I don't know about this positive/negative/neutral theory. The more contradictory it is, the more it provides the person a wider sample, pushes people out of their comfort zones, make them ... more complex and interesting. It allows them to be sometimes the polar opposite of what their dom function naturally points to.

  7. #17
    nevermore lane777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    Yes, I think your instinctual variants play a huge part in how your E-type manifests itself.

    I'm 4w5 sp/sx, and I think the leading sp sorts of tames my 4-ness a lot. I mean, if I were sx/sp, I'd be a lot more dramatic and emotional. I always feel this push-pull energy between 4 and 5, and sp and sx, which is both fun and frustrating at the same time.
    I recently figured out that I'm probably 4w5 sp/sx. What your saying would explain why everyone including myself thought I was a 9w1 for the longest time.
    To die would be an awfully big adventure - Peter Pan

    INFJ ~ 4w5 sp/sx ~ RLOAI ~ Inclusion e/w=1/0 (Melancholy Compulsive) Control: e/w=0/6 (Supine) Affection: e/w=4/0 (Phlegmatic Melancholy)

  8. #18
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Well, being an INFP 5w4 sx/sp is a little bit of mind fuck. I feel a real push and pull toward people.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #19
    Senior Member hilo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    is it okay if i ask this here?

    was wondering if this test was relatively accurate in your opinion.
    http://similarminds.com/cgi-bin/variant.pl

    and...i thought i was sx/so...but maybe i am sx/sp like this says...hmm
    opinion?

    Sexual |||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 86%
    Social ||||||||| 26%
    Self Preservation ||||||||||||||| 42%
    Probably should start a new thread, but I took that test and it came out opposite of what I think I am... I'm thinking my I-ness and e-9ness trumped whatever signal there is:


    Sexual |||||||||||||||||| 58%
    Social ||||||||||||||||||||| 62%
    Self Preservation ||||||||||||||||||||| 66%


    I'm NOT an Sp-dom, not at all. I go back and forth on whether I could be sx/so or so/sx though.

    That test had a lot of "alone time" questions - I think introverts are going to feel strongly about that, but there are still introverted Sx! And the sx-related questions seemed a bit too intense. Sometimes Sx is about a deep connection, feeling understood - not necessarily "intimacy" which I think has a sexual connotation.
    I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.
    - Umberto Eco

    INTP e9 (sx/so/sp)
    Ti = Ne (41.3) > Si (31.2) ~ Ni (31.1) ~ Te (30.1) > Se (24.1) >> Fe (21) & Fi (20.1)

  10. #20
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    :o But doesn't self-preservation go really well with 6? 6 is about foreseeing and preparing, and self-preservation is about preparing, too...

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