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  1. #1
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Default so/sp interactions with other variants - ESPECIALLY SX

    This has been of interest to me lately and on my mind.

    I am looking for some insight into what you think the major pulls / obstacles and misreads would be between the following variant types:

    so/sp with sx/sp

    so/sp with sx/so

    so/sp with sp/sx

    I won't do more than the three in this thread for ease of replying.

    You see, I am so/sp and I feel the tug-of-war between working with the group and preserving my own "space" ... and frequently, when someone wants to get close to me fast I become very wary of their motivations. With sx last in my stacking order, I find I feel the desire for connection, but find myself thinking other people are being socially inappropriate when they move fast, and then I feel my defenses go up to protect myself from either being hurt or embarrassed.

    In relationships I seldom share info about myself first unless I feel very safe because I don't think anyone is interested if they don't ask or take the time to get to me on at least a cursory level. And I don't want to come across as unduly self-absorbed. It's polite to get to know the other person first, so I generally try to follow that "rule".

    I want depth, but I fear it, because I think someone will "take" something from me and then never maintain that friendship over time. This has been a pattern IRL; I make friends with relative ease, but I can feel some want my energy and when I am "figured out" (so to speak) they move on. Not everyone, but enough for me to notice a trend.

    Example: I am a vocalist. People find that very interesting, and when I get to know someone they invariably want to see me perform etc. I feel like they get their high off of me, and then when they get what they wanted they move on. I wanted to be friends. I thought they liked me. But, they wanted to explore me and taste a bit and move on. But I wanted more! I find that ironic somehow, when the sx is supposed to be all about "depth".

    Tell me your thoughts; help me understand this so I might improve my understanding of relationship needs and not be so judging of the people who "come and go".

    Those kind of relationships have made me feel that when people get to know me, they simply don't like what they have found once they get into my "inner world". So they move on, and I am wondering why I am not "interesting" or liked anymore. That's probably just inappropriate personalization, but I am being candid here and revealing my insecurities.

    Plus, what does the so/sx and so/sp relationship look like? One gets close and feels moments are right to get way closer - but the sp pulls back at the moment where things could proceed.

    Share with me people - I want to understand more.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  2. #2
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Addendum: You all may find this strange, but it is only at this point in my life (40+) that I am deciding who I want to be friends with and pursuing those friendships. Rather than (mostly) the other way 'round.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  3. #3
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    I'm sx/sp and was in a relationship with an ENTJ so/sp for a very long time. One of our main issues was that I feared for how stable the relationship was, and he had no desire to directly or indirectly promise me and/or show me that he desired long-term security.

    He said many times that if there came a time that he and I needed to break up in order for him to accomplish his goals, then he would end it. His own welfare was more important to him than the relationship, while I saw my welfare embedded within the relationship; the two were intertwined.

    I find that as an sx/sp, I am at a perpetual conflict as to whether I should seek to ensure long-term stability, making sacrifices for this security, or whether I should put that security in jeopardy to seek out my goals. I feel chained when I'm in a stable relationship, and I feel too chaotically alone when I'm single.

    So/sp people do not seem to understand this overwhelming need for secure, stable relationships, and I found that my ex put more energy in developing his social network than he did in developing intimacy with me. He always said that if he could choose to hang out with just me or hang out with a large group of people that included me, he'd choose the latter, and this always really hurt me on some level.

  4. #4
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    That sounds harsh tesla ... I would feel hurt too.

    I put my relationship with my husband super-high in my priorities; in that scenario you outline I would choose him first. The group second. After all I have been married now for over 20 years, so that shows my level of commitment I think. (Edit: maybe as an introvert, too, that makes a bit of difference in my situation.)

    I personally do want stable relationships, but to me people seem to partake and leave. Maybe I attract this type of interaction. Maybe I never share how much I want the friendship to last, or that I want more depth (or at least the same depth.)

    tesla, do you find as sx/sp you have a lot of long term friendships? Do you maintain them frequently or infrequently? Or do you have a few great friends that the social need to occasionally interact doesn't interfere with your connection ... that you could spend a year apart then get-together and it be "just like old times"?
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  5. #5
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post

    tesla, do you find as sx/sp you have a lot of long term friendships? Do you maintain them frequently or infrequently? Or do you have a few great friends that the social need to occasionally interact doesn't interfere with your connection ... that you could spend a year apart then get-together and it be "just like old times"?
    I have a good number of long-term friendships with people that I've known since childhood. I still see and communicate with a lot of these friends on a regular basis (my current roommates are both best friends from middle/high school). Most of my current friends are actually people that I've known since childhood, even though I am a senior in college, and many have moved to different cities/states since high school.

    As far as keeping in touch with good friends that are geographically or otherwise distant, I have a hard time with this. It's not a very high priority for me to take the initiative and maintain contact with people I don't see. I don't really care what is going on in a friend's day-to-day life if I'm not seeing them; I care about larger issues in their life, but not about keeping tabs on more trivial things. I'll listen when they call, but I'll rarely call them to just "check-in." If they come to town, however, I like to meet up again if it's been a while. With these more distant friends, I could get back together with them after months/years apart and it would certainly be just like old times.

    I have a good bit of trouble making new friends and keeping them as friends. Aside from the ~10 very very good friends that I have, I will cycle through people every 6-12 months. This is not because I actively want to cut newer friends out of my life. Rather, I just have a hard time maintaining active friendships with more than ~10 people at a time. I become inadvertently negligent because I need my alone time, and I don't often take the initiative to hang out, so less secure, gluey friendships often erode away (but there's no hostility...it's just kinda, meh *shrug*).

  6. #6
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    He said many times that if there came a time that he and I needed to break up in order for him to accomplish his goals, then he would end it.
    Arrrg. At that point, you might as well have cut loose; if you are not a priority, you won't get his heart day to day, and he could end it any day regardless of your investment. Not a way to live at all.

    I feel chained when I'm in a stable relationship, and I feel too chaotically alone when I'm single.
    ^^^ Resonation.

    And I usually felt broken, like something was wrong with me, because I found myself struggling with some unhappiness in either situation.

    So/sp people do not seem to understand this overwhelming need for secure, stable relationships, and I found that my ex put more energy in developing his social network than he did in developing intimacy with me. He always said that if he could choose to hang out with just me or hang out with a large group of people that included me, he'd choose the latter, and this always really hurt me on some level.
    Totally. I know I wouldn't feel important to him. I was just "yet another person." He might as well be having sex with anyone he likes as well, since I would have no more importance to him than another woman.

    I came to the weird realization this week that my "ex" is a 2w1 sp (or sp/so). I don't even know why I never considered it possible for an ISFJ 2w1 to be an sp, I've been thinking about my own variant for a long time. And I guess it's because my ex is socially kind, appropriate, and feels warm (even if detached a bit), it's not the traditional style of sp that I know; it's just that there's a very strong "homebody" sense, and even with their few friends, they never really get together and they don't leave the house even when the choice is there.

    No wonder I was feeling lost and alone for much of the marriage. Everything really was role-based. We were supposed to be together physically all the time but purely on a working/proximity level, and getting really deep feelings and visions for the future and the "deep internal" stuff was like pulling teeth --- it was always up to me to go deep first and then sometimes be looked at like I had two heads or were prying into a place that not only wasn't appealing but covered over with cobwebs.

    My spouse was fine with that. I realize now it was meeting my spouse's needs, so why change? It was just my needs it really wasn't meeting.

    * * * * *

    What I am about to share (the pattern I see in my building of relationships) might come from an SX perspective (I think) but I cannot claim to speak for all SX people or anything nearly so broad; I don't know; this is just what I've seen myself do and what I've experienced.

    I seem to be typically restless and feel adrift when I don't happen to be in active communion with someone. It can be any one of my friends, but at times when there is no communication with anyone, I find myself getting antsy and feel myself drifting off into some sort of shadow-world where my only orientation is my own sense; I'm not getting anything to connect me to the physical, social, tangible world. So it's like I have myself, my world is not completely empty, but i have no way to orient myself in that world and also feel like I'm bleeding loneliness.

    When I meet someone I don't know and who responds to me on a personal level, it's like shots of caffeine and cocaine shot straight to the brain. Everything revs up immediately into overdrive and I'm completely immersed in the conversation. And because they are a mystery to me in many ways, that engages my intuition and curiosity -- I want to understand them and see how they fit together and "know" who they are. (I'm thinking that INTPs will recognize this as a similar feeling to finding an area of study or a pasttime that is particularly fascinating and how the INTP gets a "lock" on it and is totally immersed...)

    One issue at this point is the nature of the other person. If they start putting up boundaries, and after I put myself out there, they don't reciprocate to that level for a few exchanges, things rev down inside of me. it's like I become aware of and respect that they won't go further and there is nothing else to be shared on that deep level... so I let it go. But from the surface, it could look like I just got bored with them.

    Another issue is energy. Such focus and intensity burns through energy reserves like mad. Since I do not pace myself but tend to leap right into the connection, soon enough my energy reserves dissipate and I can't maintain that pace. Also, other life needs become more prioritized and I cannot devote the same amount of time that I did in the early parts of the discussion to the same person, if we are shifting more into a maintenance mode style of relationship. I'm very priority-driven -- if I am still trying to puzzle through their mystery, I can become obsessed, or if they have a particular issue, I will drop what I'm doing to intensely connect with them and help them through it.... but if it's just routine friendship stuff, it falls into a prioritized list of things to get done and it might not be near the type... there are always fires to fight somehow.

    (I became aware of my doing this when I've had people who needed support and/or a friend would latch onto me in the early stages, and then I'd burn out, and the daily 2-3x communications would dwindle to once every few days to even a week, and most of them had trouble accepting that it wasn't that I no longer liked them but just that I had other things to do (including other relationships to maintain).)

    I am thinking that to the other person it can look like I suddenly lose interest and just wander off. I wouldn't say that is the case, it's just that whatever needs that used to be met within the relationship no longer are being met. It also doesn't sound much different with the other variants, they are just less noticeable in some ways; all variants are need-based, it is the style of exchange that fills a needs, and it is very possible for an so or sp to have their needs filled in the relationship while maintaining distance (and in fact, too much closeness might get in the way, such as for straight sp types), while for the sx, the need for connection and closeness is not being met at all. And when people's needs are not being met, they go away.

    I think now that SX is just the most obvious, but people will complain about SOs doing their networking style of connection or dropping relationships that are no longer productive for them in pursuit of their goals, or complain about how SPs do not extend outside of themselves and pull back.

    In any case, after this opening phase of very intense, very constant, very supercharged level of conversation, the burn eventually dissipates a bit and things drop into maintenance mode. It could even be silence for awhile. Partly because there doesn't seem to be a lot else to say on the deep level. But the feelings at least for me haven't changed. I still feel the same way toward the person, I'm just not sure where things go next. If there is ample room and no external pressures to suck up available energy, a sort of "maintenance style" relationship can evolve, where you maintain periodic and more surface-level contact... until some event or thought triggers another wave of intense conversation, something that could occur a week later or a month or even a year.

    But it's not like I forget the person. Sometimes details might drift away after enough time passes (so I'll forget specific thing), but the sense and awareness of the person themselves sits inside of me. I don't forget THEM and don't stop thinking about THEM. I treasure that experience and who they are and hold it inside of me, and it lies waiting for any future opportunity of deep connection with them.

    I think it's just hard for totally SX people to operate in the other spheres for prolonged periods of time. the focus is the intense exploration of another person and revelation of self to them -- it creates a real charge that enables and motivates that sort of sharing -- and other modes of relationship do not generate the same amount of interest and energy that can be poured into the exchange. From the outside, I think this can make an SX look flighty, or like a bird darting from flower to flower, drinking nectar out of each until empty and then moving on. I think SX can become a consuming style individual if not careful, or if they are flakes, but in actuality there's a desire for more and more depth and a real vibrant connection, and the connection can actually continue to exist on the SX person's end even if there's nothing to currently drive an active exchange on the surface.


    ... that's my first rough draft, I reserve the right to change my answer whenever I want.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #7
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Jennifer... That's a pretty good description for where I tend to be. When someone comes around to start engaging me, though, I've learned to hold back on first contact. It aches like little else, but there are times when I'm sick of getting looked at funny from first interaction. Most who start, stop soon later, so it's not like they're worth the investment anyway. Opening up slowly is still a tough one for me though, and I'm still working on that. I don't like it, but I'm tired of the vibe with no pay off - I'd almost prefer to float alone and contextless.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

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    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

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  8. #8
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    so/sp - gold diggers and ass kissers.

  9. #9
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    ^ What an illuminating reply. Thanks for stopping by. No pizza, beer or party platter for you!
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  10. #10
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    Jennifer... That's a pretty good description for where I tend to be. When someone comes around to start engaging me, though, I've learned to hold back on first contact. It aches like little else, but there are times when I'm sick of getting looked at funny from first interaction. Most who start, stop soon later, so it's not like they're worth the investment anyway. Opening up slowly is still a tough one for me though, and I'm still working on that. I don't like it, but I'm tired of the vibe with no pay off - I'd almost prefer to float alone and contextless.


    Quote Originally Posted by themarlins View Post
    so/sp - gold diggers and ass kissers.
    Hooked-on phonics can be pretty effective if you don't know how to read the OP.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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