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  1. #71
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebe View Post
    Can someone summarize how so/sp-s are perceived?
    I can only comment on my perceptions of the ones I pay enough attention to, and they're decently pleasant enough to meet half way.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

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  2. #72
    Senior Member BlueGray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    EDIT: And when people tell me their life stories, or gets too "heavy"....UGH. NO, NO, NO. There's NO need to sniffle and tell me about your alcoholic uncle within an hour of meeting at a party that's supposed to be fun and festive. GAH. I think that's when I tend to come off as rude and find another person to talk to.
    I'd have to say stuff like this interests me less than pretty much anything else. It just seems so useless and boring. Talking about the weather might provide something interesting but there is nothing interesting in hearing about some person I don't know and how they are an alcoholic. Any crying or expectation for me to cry just makes it worse.
    Ne > Ti > Si >> Te > Se >> Fe > Fi > Ni
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  3. #73
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    Coming from an so/sp....

    Well, I'm still not totally familiar with the enneagram variant stackings, BUT I can definitely tell if I'm dealing with an Sx-dom.

    If you're talking to them one-on-one, they seem predator-ish. Not necessarily in a rapist kind of way, but you just feel zoomed-in on. It's pretty intense, and depending on the situation, I may end up wanting to end the conversation as fast as possible, but yet I don't want to look rude. So I'll look for the first exit, and then they'll just look at me strange, because I tend to be abrupt and almost obvious about it. I'm working on my Fe...*sawing sound*

    And if I'm hungry, thirsty, simply bored or need to pee, I'll interrupt the conversation to take care of my needs. I'm pretty ADHD if I'm hungry, so it's for the better.

    EDIT: And when people tell me their life stories, or gets too "heavy"....UGH. NO, NO, NO. There's NO need to sniffle and tell me about your alcoholic uncle within an hour of meeting at a party that's supposed to be fun and festive. GAH. I think that's when I tend to come off as rude and find another person to talk to.

    EDIT to EDIT: Unless they pay me $150/hr to listen, nod and murmur "and how does that make you feel?"
    LOL. It's not always that kind of "junk" that we talk about. I was telling PeaceBaby that we (or I) sometimes don't know when people want me to get personal and when they don't. That "line" is really fuzzy for me.

    Here's what it's like for me: I'm an INTP 5w4 sx/sp = I'm pretty introverted! So, I really, really, really don't need to talk to people much at all. When I meet people and run into people, my natural instinct is to not even talk to them. If they ask me a question, give them an answer, but keep it very straightforward and simple. I really don't care to get "tangled" up in human relations very much. But, inevitably, people ask questions. How have you beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen? How are things going? What kind of business are you starting? Where did you go to college? How many brothers and sisters do you have? Do you know much about marketing? Tons of questions come up. Some personal, some not.

    When I answer these questions, I answer fully and honestly. I'm not good at reading into the fact that they only wanted me to say, "I'm doing good. Bye!" I thought they really wanted to know what's been going on. And even if I give an answer like, "I've been good. Took a trip last week and I feel refreshed now" and then I start to walk away, they will always say, "Oooooohhhhhhh, where did you go? How was it? Who went with you?" I don't usually even care to get into those things - I'd rather just focus on my work or do my own thing. But, when they ask more and more questions, I open up more and more. Simply put, I answer their questions. At some point, they begin to see me as "a very talkative person who shares a lot." I don't know how to answer their questions without getting personal.

    Basically, if you don't want me to talk, don't ask me questions. Leave me alone and we'll be good. We do have the desire to connect deeply with people, so when people ask, we probably naturally open up. It's not that we want to "talk your head off" and "blab our personal problems". Here's the thing: If we KNEW that the person thought we were giving too much info and talking too much, then we'd likely say, "Oh that's good to know. Now I know that I don't have to get into all that crap with you anymore. I can just stay to myself more often." We prefer it that way. Unless it's another sx - because they genuinely WANT us to open up - and so it's a mutual feeling of "we both want to do this - we're both enjoying this."

    It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't type of thing. I'm so quiet that people want to know more about me and they probe. It's really annoying actually. If I don't say much, then they think I'm arrogant or snobbish. So, I talk. I answer their questions frankly. Not because I necesssarily want to (maybe I do - depends on the person), but because they are asking. If they didn't want to know, they wouldn't have asked. But, if I cross the "imaginary line" and share too much, then I'm just "dumping my personal stuff" on them. Honestly, I'd rather just be left alone if that's how they feel. Let me be my quiet self. Don't ask personal questions. Do you, and let me do me. But, it doesn't go down like that. People ALWAYS ask personal stuff. They involve themselves in your business. So, you can't stay quiet.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  4. #74
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    And what can suck when you go the 1-10 syllable route it actually turns off the people who actually care to know more... This has been my method though - as few words as possible and honest.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  5. #75
    Obsession. Lethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Basically, if you don't want me to talk, don't ask me questions. Leave me alone and we'll be good. We do have the desire to connect deeply with people, so when people ask, we probably naturally open up. It's not that we want to "talk your head off" and "blab our personal problems". Here's the thing: If we KNEW that the person thought we were giving too much info and talking too much, then we'd likely say, "Oh that's good to know. Now I know that I don't have to get into all that crap with you anymore. I can just stay to myself more often." We prefer it that way. Unless it's another sx - because they genuinely WANT us to open up - and so it's a mutual feeling of "we both want to do this - we're both enjoying this."
    Personally, I have a large threshold for handling heavy life-stories, and they can be highly intriguing because I, myself, seek out intense, up-close (yet not always personal) experiences like "contact" sports, for instance.

    Though I do see MCB's point: not everyone is ready to be interacted like that. Some people need a few moments to reach that level, due to categorizing information in the opposing direction. For the So-Sp, they can only become intimate if they feel their SP requirements are met. If it is introduced too early, they may withdraw because the safety network of trust and individual security appears flimsy. They're a slow-burning candle who takes their time raising and taming the flames. And "the alcoholic uncle" story is likely saved for confidants they've known for years.

    Think of it as how uncomfortable a Sx-Sp (esp. SP-Dom) might seem if they are coerced into the social arena without a reliable inner map, and we'd end up with pessimistic posts on the SO being untrustworthy, or meaningless. It's roughly the same concern a So-Sp has about the SX, and what PeaceBaby indicates about being "figured out" and "left behind" once the chemistry is gone.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    I was telling PeaceBaby that we (or I) sometimes don't know when people want me to get personal and when they don't. That "line" is really fuzzy for me.

    [...]

    It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't type of thing. I'm so quiet that people want to know more about me and they probe. It's really annoying actually. If I don't say much, then they think I'm arrogant or snobbish. So, I talk. I answer their questions frankly. Not because I necesssarily want to (maybe I do - depends on the person), but because they are asking. If they didn't want to know, they wouldn't have asked. But, if I cross the "imaginary line" and share too much, then I'm just "dumping my personal stuff" on them. Honestly, I'd rather just be left alone if that's how they feel. Let me be my quiet self. Don't ask personal questions. Do you, and let me do me. But, it doesn't go down like that. People ALWAYS ask personal stuff. They involve themselves in your business. So, you can't stay quiet.
    It's hard to read the cues sometimes, so I tend observe the other person's communication style before I go into sharing individual details. If they 'act' like an open book, they're probably ready to take on a more intimate approach. If they take forever to talk about their personal life, then you have your answer. This can vary situationally when the environmental and internal factors change back and forth. Getting to know more people who have a different intimacy level could help with recognizing and distinguishing multiple cues as you come across them.
    "I cannot expect even my own art to provide all of the answers -- only to hope it keeps asking the right questions." -- Grace Hartigan

    Enneagram: Tritype - 1w9, 5 (balanced wings), 2w3; Overall Variant: So/Sx
    SLOAN: rCoa|I|
    Functional Preferences: Ni, Te/Fi, Ti, Se, Fe, Si, Ne


    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Looking into the eyes of a [Ni user] is like peeking through a portal into a parallel universe.

  6. #76
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Yeah, I definitely look for cues and communication styles. That's just common sense. But, I still "overstep" sometimes or "read them wrong" one way or the other.

    I'll give you an example: This is not a "brag" at all - let me be the first one to say that I am not Mr. Smooth with the ladies. Not by a long shot. But, I have this recurring situation in my life that I attribute to my "sx" variant. I will meet a woman who is somehow intrigued and even attracted to my openness. A couple of them may have been sx, and a couple of them not sx. We will hit it off really well (as friends!!!) and talk about interesting stuff and, blah, blah, blah. Weeks will go by, we've gotten to know each other better, even hung out with mutual friends and done some fun things together, shared a lot of laughs, etc. Then when I find out that they are "in love" with me, I'm like: I just didn't see it coming. And I never saw them that way at all. And when I have to tell them that I don't see them that way, they become very upset. Like, "what the? What do you mean? Look at all the stuff we talked about and all the times we hung out!" "Umm, yeah, so?"

    I'm thinking it's because, as someone mentioned earlier, "I'm zooming in on that person." I'm really interested in getting to know them and what they are all about and maybe they've never experienced someone having that kind of a genuine interest and focus on them. It has certainly gone the other way too - where I end up falling and they think I'm a bit too "intense".

    It's actually happening right now with a friend of mine. With this particular girl, I've never even gone anywhere with her. I've only talked to her when I go eat at her restaurant. Good talks. Interesting talks. Many of them. But, now she's asking all the time if I want to go hang out, do this, do that. As a result, I had to scale it way back. I didn't think the girl would fall for me. She's much older than me to begin with - I'm closer to her daughter's age than I am to hers. How did I know that our talks would result in this? She was interested in what I was saying and I was genuinely interested in her. Just two people talking. And when I tell her I can't hang out, she says stuff like, "I think you're smarter than you let on. You know more than you act like you do." Inside my head I'm thinking, "Yeah, what I know is that it's become obvious that you like me and I've made it clear to you over and over in our conversations that I'm happy being single and am not interested in any form of dating or relationships right now. So, why do you continue to press me when you KNOW where I stand?"

    It sucks that I have to lose a great friend over that. We could have continued talking like a bunch of crazy teenagers and become really good friends. So, they seem to think that I had it planned the whole time: get close to them, suck them in, and then spit them out and break their heart. That's NEVER how I enter a situation. That would be pathetic. In reality it's just realizing that "oh this person is cool and interesting." And each conversation becomes progressively more interesting. But, they are the ones asking the questions about me. It was their curiosity that allowed me to open up. It wasn't me "hunting them down" and trying to break their heart. But, the result of it is that I'm a bad guy. I suppose I've got to be smarter than this and just really not go there with people that I know I wouldn't date. But, then I feel like I'm not being my self.

    Oh, and I don't know if this has any meaning or if it's just coincidence, but those women almost always seem to be Fi-dom or Fi-aux. The commonality seems to be that they never share with me that they are developing feelings in the early going. They just wait until their frustration boils over and then they blow up on me. Fe-users would probably tell you at the beginning, "I can see myself falling for you." I'm just saying, the fact that they never communicate that they are developing feelings until after it has become "full blown love", plays a role in me being so surprised by it.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  7. #77
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    I just discovered that I'm so/sp as well but I don't know what that means yet.

  8. #78
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    I'm really looking for interactions and dynamics that are exciting and fun for me, without barriers or silly blocks.
    Perfect definition of SX.
    ~luck favors the ready~


    Shameless Self-Promotion:MDP2525's Den and the Start of Motorcycle Maintenance

  9. #79
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Basically, if you don't want me to talk, don't ask me questions. Leave me alone and we'll be good. We do have the desire to connect deeply with people, so when people ask, we probably naturally open up. It's not that we want to "talk your head off" and "blab our personal problems". Here's the thing: If we KNEW that the person thought we were giving too much info and talking too much, then we'd likely say, "Oh that's good to know. Now I know that I don't have to get into all that crap with you anymore. I can just stay to myself more often." We prefer it that way. Unless it's another sx - because they genuinely WANT us to open up - and so it's a mutual feeling of "we both want to do this - we're both enjoying this."

    It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't type of thing. I'm so quiet that people want to know more about me and they probe. It's really annoying actually. If I don't say much, then they think I'm arrogant or snobbish. So, I talk. I answer their questions frankly. Not because I necesssarily want to (maybe I do - depends on the person), but because they are asking. If they didn't want to know, they wouldn't have asked. But, if I cross the "imaginary line" and share too much, then I'm just "dumping my personal stuff" on them. Honestly, I'd rather just be left alone if that's how they feel. Let me be my quiet self. Don't ask personal questions. Do you, and let me do me. But, it doesn't go down like that. People ALWAYS ask personal stuff. They involve themselves in your business. So, you can't stay quiet.
    In reading this thread, it seems like there’s some confusion between ‘deep conversation’ and ‘personal conversation’. Or at least I’m a little confused by how the two are sort of equated. This part above is what I consider ‘personal’ conversation: delving into personal matters, opening up and freely sharing personal information. But earlier some of the descriptions posted seem to describe ‘deep’ conversation (to me). I realize this is a semantic issue, there are many ways to define ‘deep’. I guess my point is that ‘deep’ isn’t necessarily ‘personal’.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    There's usually a point in every friendship where I realize that I'm not going to be able to go any deeper than I already have. I've gotten as deep as I'm going to get and it just won't go deeper than that. I experience this even with my own family. They just don't really have much of a desire to talk about the stuff I want to talk about. It's not interesting for them to "go deep", like it is for me. I thrive on it. They think it's strange/too intense/not practical.

    But, when you realize you've reached your limit (as far as how deep you'll be able to go), this is usually the point in the friendship where the dialogue sort of shifts from "the deep stuff" to "other stuff". There becomes less of a focus on continuing to go deep and get to know each other and more of a focus on the every day common stuff. And that's OK - that's important stuff in a friendship too. It's just that I think a lot of sx's would rather talk more about the former and less about the latter.

    I shouldn't have used the word "superficial". It's just a difference in what types of things people want to talk about. A lot of my family likes to talk about "how hot it has been" or "what they did yesterday" or "how the computer has been acting up", "the dog has been sick", "the neighbor got a new car", stuff like that. I don't mean to imply that this is "superficial" stuff. Wrong on my part. As an sx, I have a tendency (probably unhealthy) to group all of that stuff as "uninteresting" and "superficial". I love my family and wouldn't trade 'em for anything, but to an sx who wants to "go deep" as much as possible, this kind of conversation can make us go: :steam:
    This is something I can relate to 100%.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    It's the superficial stuff that I find draining. Also alienating, because I cannot comprehend why anyone would be interested in it, so it builds a gulf between myself and the other person, rather than bridging one. Sometimes I'll get irritable and ask them why they think any of that would interest me, or ask them to get to the point, but most often I will just listen out of politeness; meanwhile my brain switches off and I can feel my eyes glazing over. I just zone out and entertain myself while occasionally nodding and smiling and uttering vague "Ahs" and "mmms". To that extent I find it depersonalizing. And because I am making such an effort at giving attention and getting nothing in return (in terms of mental stimulation) it is exhausting and dispiriting.
    And this, again: 100% relate.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    I ONLY wanted the good stuff. I wanted nothing to do with the rest of it. There can be a sort of fixation on only wanting the deep conversations. I've learned to consciously say to myself, "Wait a minute! Stay here and talk to these people. Be social! It's good for you, it's valuable to your social skills and to your network - you can't just be a hermit who comes out to play when it's "deep stuff". Even if you don't have a lot of fun, stick it out for an hour and talk to these people." Sometimes I end up enjoying it a little bit, other times not so much. The sx's natural inclination, however, is that if we are a magnet, the deep stuff is metal. We crave it. [….]
    I've really struggled with "so" friends and girlfriends. The description I quoted above - I couldn't satisfy that need for them to have me (the person they cared about) be a big part of their social circle. I didn't want to hang out with their social circle. I'm not a social butterfly like that. I'd rather do something together - just the 2 of us. But, I do need my alone time, so I always encourage them to go be with their friends as much as possible (I NEVER hold them back, I push them out so that they can "stay happy" doing what they enjoy most), and they know that I'll be there for them at the end of the day. Don't read this to mean that I'm not interested in what they do or that I'm not fully committed. I most certainly am - I would even say that I'm committed and interested in a "very intense way". Perhaps more than most people would be. I just don't always want to be a part of that social circle. I'm friendly, I'm cordial, and I want to please, but I can't keep up some facade and pretend that I want to be at every event that you and your friends take part in. It's just not me. And that's where we had problems - that was hard for them to accept. They thought that if I truly loved them that I would go with them to all these events. To me, they were trying to change who I am. Why do I have to "prove" my love by being someone I'm not? Why can't you go to YOUR social events and still know that I love you just the same?
    And HOLY COW, absolutely 100%. This is exactly the biggest problem I had with my ex.

    I get exhausted very easily with situations which aren’t personally engaging for me. I always want to delve farther into a topic than most people- but it isn’t necessarily about getting personal information out of them. It’s probably about getting a personal opinion out of them (i.e. do you think ___ is immoral?), but I don’t especially consider that personal information.

    Here’s an example of what I’d consider personal: there’s another member here I haven’t interacted with very much who doesn’t make it available to leave messages on their public wall. I think this person is kinda interesting and I’m curious why- something tells me it’s a reason I can relate to. Asking this person through a pm (though we haven’t interacted much) is what I’d consider getting personal. On the other hand: starting a thread and delving into the theoretical reasons why people don’t make it available to post on their wall is what I’d consider wanting ‘deeper’ conversation that isn’t necessarily personal.

    So where does sx fall in there?

    For the op, my own answer (as an sp dom whose on the fence about /sx or /so): I wouldn’t send a pm until I’d interacted more and felt confident the other person wouldn’t be offset by such a potentially personal question. I am deeply curious about other people- why they do what they do, their opinions, etc- I love delving as far as possible into finding what makes people tick. But I sort of do it with an ‘objective’ aim in mind, if that makes any sense. I’m always kind of looking for underlying truths about the condition of being human- so I take what I get from conversation and compare it to what I already know and what’s true for me. And I love delving. At the same time, I’m wary of crossing the ‘theoretical’ line and delving into the ‘personal’ before I’ve observed someone for a spell.

    I suppose the biggest reason I’m wary is because I don’t like feeling obligated to be ‘polite’ in the way Morgan described above. The politeness is really exhausting, which is why I circle the other person’s camp a few times first before going in: I need to know if a ‘connection’ with them is going to bring more mindless discussion than I can handle. The more I am involved in initiating a ‘connection’ in the first place, the more I am consequently going to feel obligated to politely participate in mind-numbing conversation.

    I don’t expect others to be interested in the same things as me, but I get really elated when they are. I just don’t try seeking this kind of connection with most people who cross my path, though, because the “other stuff” (as INTPness put it) feels so much like death to me. I realize how snotty that probably sounds, but I actually see it as my own selfishness more than anything else.

    I don’t really get the feeling described in the op, the wariness of others getting close and then disappearing. If I have intense conversations with someone one minute- and their disinterested the next- I usually just shrug it off. I might be disappointed if I really liked the person, but I rarely take it personally; I think I can relate to the 'restlessness' described by other sx doms here enough to understand it's probably not personal. I just don’t do it myself- initiate a connection, then move on. I always wait until I’m more confident I actually want a connection with the person. I really, really can’t stand having too many obligations sitting ‘out there’, potentially wanting to cash in on some quality time (which won’t seem like quality time to me).
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  10. #80
    Obsession. Lethe's Avatar
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    I think that scenario is mostly their own doing, and how they've inaccurately interpreted your 'interest'. Sometimes, all it takes is one simple "How are you?" comment at a specific time, and that could send them over the moon. If they're starved for attention, everything positive might be taken as a sign of romantic affection. For others, you can flirt with them all you'd like, and they wouldn't blink an eye. Everyone has their moments where they start feeling infatuated, and unique style of expressing them. A person could read all they can about Mr. Smooth and charming women, but still be surprised every now and then when someone throws a curve ball.

    [I should know because I have my fair share of stalkers. ]

    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    It sucks that I have to lose a great friend over that. We could have continued talking like a bunch of crazy teenagers and become really good friends. So, they seem to think that I had it planned the whole time: get close to them, suck them in, and then spit them out and break their heart. That's NEVER how I enter a situation. That would be pathetic. In reality it's just realizing that "oh this person is cool and interesting." And each conversation becomes progressively more interesting. And then the result of it is that I'm a bad guy. I suppose I've got to be smarter than this and just really not go there with people that I know I wouldn't date. But, then I feel like I'm not being my self.


    To be honest, again, that wasn't something you could foresee yourself. Now, if you knew she was in love with you, her response is fair game. I get your frustration: I really dislike how people automatically relate intimacy to romance, and it is refreshing whenever I'm allowed to be intimate without necessarily getting in their pants. I think the connection one gets from a friendship is equally (or more) rewarding as the one from a romance, so much that I can't see myself dating anyone I won't be friends with outside the relationship.

    Despite some unfortunate events, I'd continue acting like myself. The only difference is that I plan for the worse, (but at the same time) hope for the best.

    [PS: I have a good article you may be interested in. The author is likely an ENFP SX, and he has a few solid words to share.]
    "I cannot expect even my own art to provide all of the answers -- only to hope it keeps asking the right questions." -- Grace Hartigan

    Enneagram: Tritype - 1w9, 5 (balanced wings), 2w3; Overall Variant: So/Sx
    SLOAN: rCoa|I|
    Functional Preferences: Ni, Te/Fi, Ti, Se, Fe, Si, Ne


    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Looking into the eyes of a [Ni user] is like peeking through a portal into a parallel universe.

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