User Tag List

First 23456 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 134

  1. #31
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    2,158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    Now, see, questions like that are things that I don't necessarily mind a friend knowing the answers to, but I have no idea how to answer them. If it comes up organically when you're talking about yourself or someone/something else, I may volunteer the information, but being asked the questions makes me feel a little put on the spot, like I'm at a job interview.

    I'm not a huge fan of small talk, but as Jennifer says, I've learned to use it to work for me. I like going deep with some people, but not the vast majority. Small talk gives me a way to indicate that I am not rejecting them, but keep them at arm's length until I can determine if I'm interested in pursuing something more significant. I also won't talk about personal stuff with people I don't know I can trust.
    Well, I use small talk as well. Hopefully I didn't imply that sx's don't use small talk. I think it was Jennifer that said, "I just can't live there". I use it more and more as I get older, because I see it's value in talking to people and opening the door a bit to see if I want to go deeper or if there is a need to go deeper. But, it still wears me out. It drains me. Too much of it is mentally exhausting.

    And yes, there is definitely a "leading up" period before we "go deep". There have been those handful of rare instances where I've been able to get really deep with another sx within minutes of getting to know them. It's like:

    "Hey nice to meet you."
    "You too!"
    "So, I hear you work at X. Sounds interesting! Do you love it?
    "Well, yes and no. I'm passionate about it, but I'd rather do it in a different setting."
    "Passion! That's what I'm interested in. What is it that you are passionate about? Tell me more about that!"
    "Um, OK, sure! How much time do you have?"
    "As long as it takes. I wanna hear about it! I love that kind of stuff."
    (Proceed to talk for 4 hours)

    Those instances are super rare, but sometimes it happens where you can meet someone at a bus stop and just totally get to know what makes them tick. But, we know this isn't the norm - so we use small talk as a tool to "feel things out". If both people are sx, the floodgates will eventually come down. One of them will ask a good question or give a very in-depth answer, and it will just snowball.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  2. #32
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    Nor I. I don't see mindmate connections as romantic, necessarily.
    Okay. That clarifies things a bit, and we are on the same page there.

    The opposite is true for me. Connecting with someone on a deep level is refreshing and energizing, I never feel that introverted need to withdraw. It's the superficial stuff that I find draining.
    Well, let me clarify (and I still think we are in alignment here):

    That's how I felt exactly when I was twenty. Why then? Because I had very few relationships that ever went that deeply. So the few I had like that, I loved and felt energized by.

    I think the problem now with the energy loss is not the issue of going deep (which I long to do)... but I have too many relationships at this point in my life. I try to go to deep in too many at once. My heart is willing but my body can't handle the energy drain anymore... and I'm swamped by a lot of practical life demands that siphon away energy as well. And, as some of the others here have been saying, they have trouble going deep and then not expecting SOME level of commitment in return; otherwise they end up viewing it as social vampirism. I can sense this in them, and so I internally feel an obligation to "pay for the communication" if I make the bond with them; I guess I could limit the relationships I make and just not go deep with someone I sense will expect more of me that I can give in other ways, but I'm still working through what sort of boundaries I need for myself.

    Anyway, the drain is coming from the quantity of people I've tried to connect with, as well as the cost I've tacitly agreed to pay as part of what they want. But I am finding I no longer can keep up and need lower maintenance costs.

    Also alienating, because I cannot comprehend why anyone would be interested in it, so it builds a gulf between myself and the other person, rather than bridging one. Sometimes I'll get irritable and ask them why they think any of that would interest me, or ask them to get to the point, but most often I will just listen out of politeness; meanwhile my brain switches off and I can feel my eyes glazing over. I just zone out and entertain myself while occasionally nodding and smiling and uttering vague "Ahs" and "mmms". To that extent I find it depersonalizing.
    Totally. It can lead to externally polite detachment and underlying resentment. The real reason I hated to talk to my mother for years of my adulthood (beside her codependent tendencies) for example, was just all the "chatter I considered inane" at the time. It was easier just to avoid her, so I wouldn't have to put up a polite pretense and carry deeper feelings of boredom and annoyance with our relationship. I can still only handle about half an hour of it before my attention starts to drift; one problem is that she just can't seem to come in my direction at all, she can't grasp anything complex or hidden; so she can't reciprocate. That sort of puts a dead end in our relationship right there.

    And because I am making such an effort at giving attention and getting nothing in return (in terms of mental stimulation) it is exhausting and dispiriting.
    Yeah, the relationship is not reciprocal. Do they realize this? I know I probably just gave up trying with certain people at some point; it just was not worth the hassle.

    As a child, I thought maybe everyone did this - just tolerated the nonsense that everyone else spoke about, out of politeness - that maybe everyone was secretly yearning for release from the tyranny of social niceties and wanted to be able to be more "real" and free with each other, as I saw it. But that was just projection. I found people frustrated, even frightened by the depth I wanted to pursue, by my habit of turning all their certainties upside down, digging at the roots of their being.
    I think I mentioned once how my mom told other people in my family that she didn't want to talk to me anymore about some things (such as faith or social issues) because I confused her and she no longer knew what to believe. Some people seem to need more stability/assurance of what they see as true; others can handle ambiguity far better; it's really hard to coax the former out over what they see as an abyss that could upend their entire life stability.

    So I just shut up about my interests, and nodded and smiled, and quietly died inside. I think this accounts for a lot of the negative stereotypes about introverted intuitives. We aren't closed off by nature so much as by the nurture of a brutalizing environment full of people who seem like zombies to us... and we to them.
    I had missed the latter part until maybe the last 5-6 years of my life. I hadn't realized how opaque my external responses had appeared to them. I just looked disinterested, withdrawn, sullen, non-engaging, bored, and self-absorbed. That was a perspective I had never really realized, and it explained some of the reactions I got from them.

    Of course, the difference shows up when you get around people you can engage deeply -- it's like everything comes to life.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #33
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Questions that have no definite answer, that make people think, that cut right to the important stuff, that require them to "clean out their own closet" in order to give an honest answer. That's my feeble attempt to put it into words. Does that resonate at all?
    It's a pit-stop on the road to depth, I guess. I really like to go darker than that. I like to know the worst things about someone, even more than the best.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Anyway, the drain is coming from the quantity of people I've tried to connect with, as well as the cost I've tacitly agreed to pay as part of what they want. But I am finding I no longer can keep up and need lower maintenance costs.
    Ah, yes. It's not something I could sustain with lots of people. But I thought SXs were unlikely to have a very wide circle of friends? I like to focus completely on one person at a time.
    The real reason I hated to talk to my mother for years of my adulthood (beside her codependent tendencies) for example, was just all the "chatter I considered inane" at the time. It was easier just to avoid her, so I wouldn't have to put up a polite pretense and carry deeper feelings of boredom and annoyance with our relationship. I can still only handle about half an hour of it before my attention starts to drift; one problem is that she just can't seem to come in my direction at all, she can't grasp anything complex or hidden; so she can't reciprocate. That sort of puts a dead end in our relationship right there.
    +1
    And it grieves me, but it is what it is and no more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  4. #34
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    9w1 sx/so
    Posts
    18,086

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    Nor I. I don't see mindmate connections as romantic, necessarily.

    You talked about the sort of things you'd classify as superficial, can you talk more about what you mean by "going deep"?

    The opposite is true for me. Connecting with someone on a deep level is refreshing and energizing, I never feel that introverted need to withdraw. It's the superficial stuff that I find draining. Also alienating, because I cannot comprehend why anyone would be interested in it, so it builds a gulf between myself and the other person, rather than bridging one. Sometimes I'll get irritable and ask them why they think any of that would interest me, or ask them to get to the point, but most often I will just listen out of politeness; meanwhile my brain switches off and I can feel my eyes glazing over. I just zone out and entertain myself while occasionally nodding and smiling and uttering vague "Ahs" and "mmms". To that extent I find it depersonalizing. And because I am making such an effort at giving attention and getting nothing in return (in terms of mental stimulation) it is exhausting and dispiriting.

    As a child, I thought maybe everyone did this - just tolerated the nonsense that everyone else spoke about, out of politeness - that maybe everyone was secretly yearning for release from the tyranny of social niceties and wanted to be able to be more "real" and free with each other, as I saw it. But that was just projection. I found people frustrated, even frightened by the depth I wanted to pursue, by my habit of turning all their certainties upside down, digging at the roots of their being. So I just shut up about my interests, and nodded and smiled, and quietly died inside. I think this accounts for a lot of the negative stereotypes about introverted intuitives. We aren't closed off by nature so much as by the nurture of a brutalizing environment full of people who seem like zombies to us... and we to them.
    wow i am/was exactly the same way. that's what makes me feel so different than other people sometimes...like all the social niceties...like they all know how to play the game and enjoy it and i find it mind numbingly boring...i have very little ability to be engaging on any topic that doesn't cut right to the core of a person...don't care what you do for work...tell me what you love...don't care about the random details of your relationship...tell me what scares you or what you've learned..or whatever...just get real with me..
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  5. #35
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    It's a pit-stop on the road to depth, I guess. I really like to go darker than that. I like to know the worst things about someone, even more than the best.Ah, yes. It's not something I could sustain with lots of people. But I thought SXs were unlikely to have a very wide circle of friends? I like to focus completely on one person at a time.
    Well, from what I've seen, you like to focus on your Ti (and Ti is a linear process) -- I tend to live in my Ne style a lot more (spatial process) and sometimes can look sort of manic like my ENTP friends, and I'll even do that with projects too (i.e., take on more than one really ambitious project at once, feeling very intensely about each of them and driving as far down into them as I can get... and then run out of energy and never finish any of them).

    But I'm also guessing my particular background sort of created a large gulf in me, and now that I finally felt able to be myself and truly connect honestly, I went way overboard to fill the vacuum and spread myself far too thin in the process. I think I'm reaching a point where I'm starting to put up boundaries, pick the relationships that really work, and invest my energies in them, and let the rest go.

    So some of my experience could be more me than SX.

    And it grieves me, but it is what it is and no more.
    Yup. In the end, one has to be a realist. It is what it is.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #36
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    2,158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    It's a pit-stop on the road to depth, I guess. I really like to go darker than that. I like to know the worst things about someone, even more than the best.
    Like I said, "going deep" to me is going to a place where what you may find is limitless. Although, I'm not *specifically* enamored with people's dark pasts. It may come up in a conversation, and we'll explore it, but it's just part of the overall for me.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  7. #37
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Like I said, "going deep" to me is going to a place where what you may find is limitless. Although, I'm not *specifically* enamored with people's dark pasts. It may come up in a conversation, and we'll explore it, but it's just part of the overall for me.
    Ha... I missed Morgan's quote here.

    Yeah, I'm the same way. I want to know the darker things, although I'm into the "whole picture." But I feel like the darker things are the things people try to hide, whereas the positive things are the more obvious things, and it ends up making them less than they could be, and the darker things are also the things that drive us unconsciously (e.g., Clarice and the lambs)... bringing it all into awareness is a positive thing in the end.

    There is typically no judgment involved. We're realists. Things are what they are. What matters is what we do with them. It's more just part of truly understanding someone and what drives them. If you want to understand someone, a big part of it is understanding what they are running from.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #38
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    937 so/sx
    Posts
    6,226

    Default

    There's so much to digest here. Let me take a deeper bite out of it.

    First: a mini-condensation of the things I have thoughts on, would agree with or apply to me as well:

    By Jennifer: From the outside, I think this can make an SX look flighty, or like a bird darting from flower to flower, drinking nectar out of each until empty and then moving on.
    - yes, I do meet people who give me this impression. I never actually considered the variants as a reason for this though.

    ---

    by INTPness: if there's no real connection, it just kind of fizzles out. This can happen for a number of reasons:

    (a) The other person isn't open, so it's like I'm hitting a brick wall and I can't go any deeper.
    (b) Our interests don't really mesh.
    (c) After getting to know them, it becomes obvious that I won't be able to give them what they want.
    - yes, I would describe this too about not making a connection with people. I too see this as some N vs S - I describe it as the "click" I get when meeting certain people. It doesn't happen very often but when I do experience it a great friendship ensues (more often than not).

    I see it more as meeting someone who really resonates with my interests, life experience, gender sometimes, personality style and life path. You just feel like you know them, and want to know about them, and hang out with them, and be friends, talking about all the "boring" stuff that no one else is interested in.

    Maybe for me it is about the resonance, the harmony of our interests, the sense of sharing similarities and our personality together. But if your description is just about that sx connection, I wouldn't say it sounds exclusive to it. Maybe there's a frequency or depth issue.

    But most people I meet don't want to talk about any "deep" stuff I want to talk about either. They just look at me with glazed eyes and answer with vague "uh-huh's".

    ---

    by Seymour: I also find myself enjoying crisis situations at times, since that's when the walls between other people come down.
    - I can relate to this as well. In fact, my walls come down too, and we can meet in the middle of that.

    ---

    by INTPness: Basically as an INTP sx, I just want to talk about really interesting stuff *all the time*. I need space, I need alone time to recharge my batteries, and yes, there are other things that need to be tended to. But, theoretically, if I just had 1 friend that I could talk to about "life" all the time, that would be really cool. No drama and all that other stuff, but just someone to bounce ideas off of and have some debates with, laugh about crazy stuff, etc. That's what gets me going. That's where the good stuff is at for the sx and, frankly, not a lot of people are into that sort of thing. So, when we find it, or when it begins to happen/unfold, it's an amazing thing.
    - I could just as easily have written this. Not to diminish your expression, because I appreciate how candid you are, but something about this is overlapping I think with basic human needs for connection?

    ---

    by Morgan: I know that buzzy, hyper, high. But does this happen often for you? I could count the number of times on one hand... I really wish I could get that with more people, but most are just hard work and zero chemistry
    - @ bold - it sure doesn't happen everyday for me.

    ---

    There's this sense that sx is about getting sx needs met, but seldom is the other person mentioned as a part of a stable or ongoing relationship - like establishing rapport, building friendship, caring for each other though intensity and disconnect ... that's the reality of life, that we have moments of closeness and clarity, moments where we don't chat for a bit then reconnect.

    Is sx just about the hit, the high? That's the part I don't want to give you because I feel like I'll give over and then you'll be gone. Very similar to a sexual one-night stand metaphor. I don't like the sense of being "used" and I feel like if you liked me enough to have sex with me and be intimate with me what is it that makes you leave me?

    I really connect more with a sense of sharing rather than two people getting what they want. Of course being consensual changes everything.

    But if you sense I don't want to go "deep" that doesn't mean there's no depth to be had! I resent that I'm not important enough to warrant anything more than a cursory inspection to see if I am willing to get there "fast".

    (PS I am being a bit harsh and a little unvarnished to try to import a true sense of how I view this.)

    ---

    by INTPness: I shouldn't have used the word "superficial". It's just a difference in what types of things people want to talk about. A lot of my family likes to talk about "how hot it has been" or "what they did yesterday" or "how the computer has been acting up", "the dog has been sick", "the neighbor got a new car", stuff like that. I don't mean to imply that this is "superficial" stuff. Wrong on my part. As an sx, I have a tendency (probably unhealthy) to group all of that stuff as "uninteresting" and "superficial". I love my family and wouldn't trade 'em for anything, but to an sx who wants to "go deep" as much as possible, this kind of conversation can make us go:
    - I could have written this too. I have always attributed it to S vs N and just the everyday-ness of life, the common superficial things we share that serve to start conversation. Such structure can be a means to an end rather than the whole point.

    ---

    By Morgan: As a child, I thought maybe everyone did this - just tolerated the nonsense that everyone else spoke about, out of politeness - that maybe everyone was secretly yearning for release from the tyranny of social niceties and wanted to be able to be more "real" and free with each other, as I saw it.
    - I could have written this too - and as I got older I realized a.) not everyone thinks beyond this space or b.) not everyone wants to go there.

    One needs to respect that many people will just never, never go there with you.

    Why does an sx-dom think anyone should? What have you done to "earn" that level of intimacy?

    ---

    Second: Below is a quote from the enneagraminstitute site. I share it and emphasize the @bold as how I feel about relating to people:

    Social (aka "Adaptive") Instinct
    Just as many people tend to misidentify themselves as Sexual types because they want one-on-one relationships, many people fail to recognize themselves as Social types because they get the (false) idea that this means always being involved in groups, meetings, and parties. If Self-Preservation types are interested in adjusting the environment to make themselves more secure and comfortable, Social types adapt themselves to serve the needs of the social situation they find themselves in. Thus, Social types are highly aware of other people, whether they are in intimate situations or in groups. They are also aware of how their actions and attitudes are affecting those around them. Moreover, Sexual types seek intimacy, Social types seek personal connection: they want to stay in long-term contact with people and to be involved in their world. Social types are the most concerned with doing things that will have some impact on their community, or even broader domains. They tend to be warmer, more open, engaging, and socially responsible than the other two types. In their primary relationships, they seek partners with whom they can share social activities, wanting their intimates to get involved in projects and events with them. Paradoxically, they actually tend to avoid long periods of exclusive intimacy and quiet solitude, seeing both as potentially limiting. Social types lose their sense of identity and meaning when they are not involved with others in activities that transcend their individual interests.

    ---

    The big distinction I see so far is this need to be intensely intimate, get there and stay there. But every relationship has a honeymoon period; it can't stay there, that chemical reaction cannot be sustained forever. It's not even meant to. But I can relate to how powerful that is, why it is a focus and a desire. As a soc type, is it because I don't just accept the moment for what it is that's the problem? Just enjoy being there, for as long as that lasts? Take a ride with an sx type? Need to think more ...
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  9. #39
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    5,530

    Default

    Is sx just about the hit, the high? That's the part I don't want to give you because I feel like I'll give over and then you'll be gone. Very similar to a sexual one-night stand metaphor. I don't like the sense of being "used" and I feel like if you liked me enough to have sex with me and be intimate with me what is it that makes you leave me?

    I really connect more with a sense of sharing rather than two people getting what they want. Of course being consensual changes everything.
    This hits me as true to a point. Jennifer's initial post mentioned restlessness. That's a good word to describe sx/sp interactions. There's always an underlying restlessness. Of course, it's expression varies via different types.

    PeaceBaby asked what is it that makes you leave me? Once you get that intensity it's hard to keep up and sometimes it wears the sx/sp out to experience a connection like that. It kicks our sp side into action telling us it's not safe.

    Sometimes it is as described above. Or maybe a better example is a drug high. For instance, with some drugs, the first time you take it you can never physically get that high again. So in an sx/sp's mind you know you'll never get that high again with that person like you did. Therefore, it's best to move on instead of getting hooked. Other times it's boredom or that 'fix' is all you needed (to expand on the drug reference). Again. it's the intimacy itself that's valuable not the subsequent consequences of it.
    ~luck favors the ready~


    Shameless Self-Promotion:MDP2525's Den and the Start of Motorcycle Maintenance

  10. #40
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx/so
    Socionics
    IEI
    Posts
    8,559

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    This hits me as true to a point. Jennifer's initial post mentioned restlessness. That's a good word to describe sx/sp interactions. There's always an underlying restlessness. Of course, it's expression varies via different types.

    PeaceBaby asked what is it that makes you leave me? Once you get that intensity it's hard to keep up and sometimes it wears the sx/sp out to experience a connection like that. It kicks our sp side into action telling us it's not safe.

    Sometimes it is as described above. Or maybe a better example is a drug high. For instance, with some drugs, the first time you take it you can never physically get that high again. So in an sx/sp's mind you know you'll never get that high again with that person like you did. Therefore, it's best to move on instead of getting hooked. Other times it's boredom or that 'fix' is all you needed (to expand on the drug reference). Again. it's the intimacy itself that's valuable not the subsequent consequences of it.
    I wonder what keeps me around, though... I'll get the high, I'll need recovery time, but I also want to come back for more, and it's not just sex when it comes to this reaction. I find when it feels good I want it more and often associate that person with the good feeling than the action that took place. This may be a result of different numbers though...
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Similar Threads

  1. [so] so/sp vs. so/sx 4
    By thoughtlost in forum Instinctual Subtypes
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-21-2017, 05:14 PM
  2. [sp] Sp/So: experiences with other types
    By decrescendo in forum Instinctual Subtypes
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-26-2014, 04:29 PM
  3. sp/so, so/sp, and sp/sx exxp
    By the state i am in in forum Enneagram
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 10-23-2010, 08:12 PM
  4. [INTJ] INTJs interacting with others
    By Natrushka in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 10-20-2007, 04:30 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO