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Harry Potter types

Animal

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You know what? I related a shitton to Harry in book 5 because he was so angry exactly in the way I'm angry when I'm angry at the world. (I should link you some of the stuff I wrote during this period of my life, you'd see parallels). A lot of people thought he was emo angry but I could just relate to how he thought everything was unjust and cruel and unfair. The world was so rotten you just thought it was better if we all just died. It wouldn't change a thing. Kind of like 5-8 nihilistic anger I think. 1s would be angry out of frustration - the world's so rotten, I must fix it! Harry doesn't want to fix anything and any experience he has which reinforces his view of it being rotten just makes he make him think of it more badly than before. It just proves his mindset all along - the world is rotten.

Yes, this is a really good point. He already had a "the world is rotten" mentality. Not sure I'd expect this of a 9w8. Not sure how 6's feel about this?
 

Entropic

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[MENTION=17911]Maybe[/MENTION], I could do a similar list because I also relate a lot to Harry:

- Ignoring rules that don't fit him
- Being emotionally shy
- Impulsive need to protect people he cares about or just whenever he sees something he deems unjust
- His anger issues
- That he didn't run away from his uncle and aunt but depised their being out of his very core
- His attitude towards school
- Rescuing people he takes pity on despite previous animosity

Also do keep in mind that Harry is an ISFP. I think some of the things you mentioned you don't relate to could potentially be because he is ultimately an introvert and he will not take needless action unless he deems it absolutely necessary. Also, as much as he hated being controled by the Dudleys I think he realized that he needed them for survival. Despite treating him like shit they still provided him with food on the table and a bed to sleep in. If he ran away the prospects of that would be difficult. Maybe also some kind of sp first think? I could see Harry being sp/sx.
 

Animal

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[MENTION=17911]Maybe[/MENTION], I could do a similar list because I also relate a lot to Harry:

- Ignoring rules that don't fit him
- Being emotionally shy
- Impulsive need to protect people he cares about or just whenever he sees something he deems unjust
- His anger issues
- That he didn't run away from his uncle and aunt but depised their being out of his very core
- His attitude towards school
- Rescuing people he takes pity on despite previous animosity

Also do keep in mind that Harry is an ISFP. I think some of the things you mentioned you don't relate to could potentially be because he is ultimately an introvert and he will not take needless action unless he deems it absolutely necessary. Also, as much as he hated being controled by the Dudleys I think he realized that he needed them for survival. Despite treating him like shit they still provided him with food on the table and a bed to sleep in. If he ran away the prospects of that would be difficult. Maybe also some kind of sp first think? I could see Harry being sp/sx.

All good points. It's interesting that you relate to some of the things I don't - him not running away, but secretly hating them, but feeling he needed to survive, for instance.
[MENTION=17912]Vergil[/MENTION] isn't posting but she told me her argument for 9w8 which was strong - (though I'm not convinced, I want to hear people argue this out because it's very interesting!) ... her main point is this:

Was Harry Potter's behavior *expansive?* An 8's behavior would be expansive. Expanding boundaries, etc.

I can see an argument for him pushing boundaries with his rule-breaking, and learning things his own way. He also takes it upon himself to run a class when he feels self-defense is being taught wrong. This is expansive behavior, I suppose.

I always had sort of a independent, "solo" approach to things but people would gravitate around what I was doing, when I allowed them to; to the point where friends would refer to me as "the sun" and claim that everyone's life revolved around me; and this is a pattern that continued through my life. I'm either by myself or in charge.

The point [MENTION=17912]Vergil[/MENTION] made, was that Harry would, by contrast, follow Hermione's plans, and stick with his crew.
 

Elfboy

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I did a search on this and couldn't find anything...I'm new! :p If it's already been done, feel free to move it or delete it...
Harry 6w5
9w8>2w3>?w? Sx/Sp
I could see 6w7, 7w6 or 7w8 for his head fix

yeah
6w7>9w8>3w2 So/Sx

Fred and George 7w6
definitely! :D
7w6>9w8>2w3 So/Sx

Hermione 1w2 or 5w6
some sort of combination of 1w2, 3w4 and either 5w6 or 6w5. not sure which is core
Sp/So

Ginny 7w6
some sort of 9w?, 7w6, 2w3 tritype So/Sx

9w1 or 5w4>4w5 Sp/Sx

Molly Weasley 6w5
6w7>1w2>2w3

Arthur Weasley 5w4 (5w6?)
6w7 or 7w6>9w1>2w3 So/Sp

Proffesor McGonagall 1 (wing?)
1w2>6w5>3w4 Sp/So

Professor Dumbledore 5w4
1w9>7w6>2w3 So/Sx

Voldemort 8w7 (6w5?)
6w5>8w7>4w5 Sp/Sx

I'd love to hear other opinions...and I can't seem to wrap my head around Snape and Draco Malfoy...any takers? :)
- Malfoy: 3w4>6w7>8w7 So/Sx
- Snape: 4w5>5w6>8w9 Sx/Sp
 

Animal

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[MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION]

I forgot about Malfoy - he strikes me as a 3w4 too.

Curious, what makes you think that Arthur Weasley is a 6 rather than a 5? And also, I'm hoping someone will elaborate on Voldemort. I find him to be a pretty one-dimensional character so it's hard for me to come up with a type. Maybe I'm missing something.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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I think villains are typically XXXX. And that is what makes them good villains. They need to be related to by all, yet none.

Heroes are like this too.
 
R

Riva

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Arthur Weasley is an 6w7 it hurts doesn't it?

However if Arthur is an 6w7 (which is quite obvious) I definitely can' see Molly as one herself.

Molly was such an annoying character.

And she acts as a reminder to all the intuitive types that even in the wizarding world with all that magic people like that exist and cannot be gotten rid of, therefore we should learn how to get used to the ones in our lives.

Annoying as fuck she was though had a good heart. She was too forced. She uses her good deeds to choke the rest.

Another disagreement (actually this one is a question) is how is it that Snape is a 4w5? Isn't he an obvious 5w4?
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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^agreed about Snape.

Molly was a just the esfp? of a tiny army. I thought she did rather well, considering.
 

Animal

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Another disagreement (aactually this one is a question) is how is it that Snape is a 4w5? Isn't he an obvious 5w4?

4 - - > tragic romantic masochist mentality. He was in love with a woman who didn't love him, all of his life. His actions were motivated by his envy of James Potter, as well as his irrational passion for Lily Potter. There's a connecting line to 1 in the way he teaches, being very exact about the information (reinforced by a 5 fix) and a definite disintegration to 2 with his stalking obsession with Lily Potter. That's also masochistic since she didn't want him back. 4s would wallow in their emotions loving the pain even after someone's death; 5s are future-thinkers and more dry and logical.
 

Animal

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I think villains are typically XXXX. And that is what makes them good villains. They need to be related to by all, yet none.

Heroes are like this too.

I personally like villains with substance. I love the Harry Potter series, and also LOTR and Star Wars, but I think out of all the series, Star Wars has the closest thing to good villains, and even though episodes 4, 5, and 6 are so much better, the content of the villains' characters is more laid out in episodes 1, 2, and 3. I know the acting is terrible and the CGI is overdone, but the idea of Annikin and his personal struggle is more relatable, and the Emperor's quest for power is not that far off from your local politician. :laugh: I'd prefer to have villains who are human, who have vulnerabilities and specific motives; something that would line up with an enneagram type. That's why, although I find Harry Potter to be an amazing series, and JK Rowling so inspiring, the villain is disappointing.

The only thing that makes him even remotely human is seeing that he's abused as a kid, but that is just SO typical. And even as a kid he's a pure sociopath. I'd like a villain with fully developed frontal lobes, and a serious internal conflict, thankuverymuch. Someone who I kind of want to have wild sex with, but kind of want to kill. :shock: I want to feel that conflict inside of myself; I want to taste my own need for revenge; I want to feel my own powerlust and anger and disappointment and fear coursing through my veins when a villain starts to lose his mind and slowly transition from a passionate kid to an off-the-hook psycho. I want to FEEL it. I want to wish I could shake him and set him straight. I want to feel strong because I saved myself, by contrast. I want to wonder whether I really did save myself. This is what would make a great villain, to me.

Top notch villain:
The Phantom in Phantom of the Opera.

Severus Snape is a good anti-hero. Even Draco Malfoy is a decently sympathetic "villain." Better than Voldemort. Voldemort is so unreal that I can't even hate him. I just want to laugh in his weird face.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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I personally like villains with substance. I love the Harry Potter series, and also LOTR and Star Wars, but I think out of all the series, Star Wars has the closest thing to good villains, and even though episodes 4, 5, and 6 are so much better, the content of the villains' characters is more laid out in episodes 1, 2, and 3. I know the acting is terrible and the CGI is overdone, but the idea of Annikin and his personal struggle is more relatable. I'd prefer to have villains who are human, who have vulnerabilities and specific motives; something that would line up with an enneagram type. That's why, although I find Harry Potter to be an amazing series, and JK Rowling so inspiring, the villain is disappointing.

The only thing that makes him even remotely human is seeing that he's abused as a kid, but that is just SO typical. And even as a kid he's a pure sociopath. I'd like a villain with fully developed frontal lobes, and a serious internal conflict, thankuverymuch. Someone who I kind of want to have wild sex with, but kind of want to kill. :shock: I want to feel that conflict inside of myself; I want to taste my own need for revenge; I want to feel my own powerlust and anger and disappointment and fear coursing through my veins when a villain starts to lose his mind and slowly transition from a passionate kid to an off-the-hook psycho. I want to FEEL it. I want to wish I could save him. I want to feel strong because I saved myself, by contrast. I want to wonder whether I really did save myself. This is what would make a great villain, to me.

Top notch villains:
The Phantom in Phantom of the Opera.
Severus Snape.

even Draco Malfoy is a decently sympathetic "villain." Better than Voldemort. Voldemort is so unreal that I can't even hate him. I just want to laugh in his weird face.


Very eloquent. Yeah, I get what you are saying. Yet Heath Ledger's joker was amazing. I think he's one of my favorite villains. Also, Hannibal Lecter might be my all time favorite, though he fell sort of in between the villain and hero, which might have been in part be what made his character so enthralling.

I still think that is more about character development and less about type. If anything, a deranged individual who can go either way, would in actuality have good development of all his functions, having been thrust up close and personal with each of them in times of trauma.
 

Animal

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Very eloquent. Yeah, I get what you are saying. Yet Heath Ledger's joker was amazing. I think he's one of my favorite villains. Also, Hannibal Lecter might be my all time favorite, though he fell sort of in between the villain and hero, which might have been in part be what made his character so enthralling.
Haha, yes - the joker and Lechter were both amazing!

I still think that is more about character development and less about type. If anything, a deranged individual who can go either way, would in actuality have good development of all his functions, having been thrust up close and personal with each of them in times of trauma.
This is a very good take on things. I'm writing a novel and I have kind of an "over-developed" lovable super-villain, and I've been stressing because I don't know what his core is. There is a strong argument for a few possibilities, which makes me wonder: is he realistic? But you're right in a sense. There has to be more relatability than would apply to just one type. For instance, Harry Potter may very well be a 9w8, but 6's, 8s, 5s, and other can relate in a very personal way to his behavior and motives. So having a character who is less "archetypal" in terms of enneagram, may lead to something that more people can relate to.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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Haha, yes - the joker and Lechter were both amazing!


This is a very good take on things. I'm writing a novel and I have kind of an "over-developed" lovable super-villain, and I've been stressing because I don't know what his core is. There is a strong argument for a few possibilities, which makes me wonder: is he realistic? But you're right in a sense. There has to be more relatability than would apply to just one type. For instance, Harry Potter may very well be a 9w8, but 6's, 8s, 5s, and other can relate in a very personal way to his behavior and motives. So having a character who is less "archetypal" in terms of enneagram, may lead to something that more people can relate to.

Exactly. This same discussion came up about bond with Mane and I--that heroes are an enigma and are oftentimes difficult to type, because if they were easy to type, they wouldn't be so special.

I'd think you'd want your character to have a strong core, development-wise, meaning a strong character that operates within a certain range of psycho behavior (if he's too random, he won't be understandable or relateable), but good at everything (xxxx) so he is above most people, so they can admire his abilities even whilst hating his behavior; they can understand his modus operandi, yet hate him for it.

Cool that you are writing a book!
 

Animal

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Exactly. This same discussion came up about bond with Mane and I--that heroes are an enigma and are oftentimes difficult to type, because if they were easy to type, they wouldn't be so special.
Yes!
I'm also a fan of the "unsuspecting hero" - sort of like Frodo Baggins, except I'd want my heroes to have more of a dark side ;) .. I love thrusting characters with the most unsuspecting qualities into really tough situations and making them squirm, and then triumph over that adversity. I love personal growth, too.

I'd think you'd want your character to have a strong core, development-wise, meaning a strong character that operates within a certain range of psycho behavior (if he's too random, he won't be understandable or relateable), but good at everything (xxxx) so he is above most people, so they can admire his abilities even whilst hating his behavior; they can understand his modus operandi, yet hate him for it.

Cool that you are writing a book!
This is pretty much how he is. =,) (That makes me happy.. haha!) It's just, I guess the particular behavior and quirk-set could be attributed to a few cores. It makes me feel a bit better that I have his tritype down, quite clearly. :)

I'm very obsessive about my characters and plot, and all the background stuff. I'm not amazing at the craft of writing but I'd hand it over to an editor at that phase. I actually came to study enneagram and MBTI for this reason - to get a different perspective on people which can help me to understand my characters even more. Of course, I would never write a character on that basis; I'd let them develop naturally, and use these systems to evaluate them for my own further understanding during the editing phase.

Sometimes, though, I wonder if it's more of a hindrance than a help.
 

Animal

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Also, [MENTION=6336]AphroditeGoneAwry[/MENTION] - I would say the characters whose struggles I relate to most, in fiction that most people would know about, are, in this order:

Annikin Skywalker
Phantom from Phantom of the Opera
Harry Potter


I don't think there are any really relatable characters in LOTR, though Aragorn is sexy. ;)
 

madhatter

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To the general discussion: I think that Harry is a core-6, granted with a 8-fix, but a core-6 nonetheless. I don't believe that the core motivations are there to justify 8 as a core. Speaking about the anger that is ever-present in book 5, anger does not automatically equal gut type. I personally think that he had untreated PTSD, which would explain a lot.

That's why, although I find Harry Potter to be an amazing series, and JK Rowling so inspiring, the villain is disappointing.

The only thing that makes him even remotely human is seeing that he's abused as a kid, but that is just SO typical. And even as a kid he's a pure sociopath. I'd like a villain with fully developed frontal lobes, and a serious internal conflict, thankuverymuch. Someone who I kind of want to have wild sex with, but kind of want to kill. :shock: I want to feel that conflict inside of myself; I want to taste my own need for revenge; I want to feel my own powerlust and anger and disappointment and fear coursing through my veins when a villain starts to lose his mind and slowly transition from a passionate kid to an off-the-hook psycho. I want to FEEL it. I want to wish I could shake him and set him straight. I want to feel strong because I saved myself, by contrast. I want to wonder whether I really did save myself. This is what would make a great villain, to me.

Top notch villain:
The Phantom in Phantom of the Opera.

Severus Snape is a good anti-hero. Even Draco Malfoy is a decently sympathetic "villain." Better than Voldemort. Voldemort is so unreal that I can't even hate him. I just want to laugh in his weird face.

I agree that Voldemort is very hard to type, to the point where he might be untypeable. Also, if he is a sociopath, then that makes him even harder to type. But let's break down what we know about him. He was obsessed with power, yes, but also, he was obsessed with hidden and forbidden knowledge, and ancient and dark magic. This obsession for knowledge points to a 5-fix, perhaps (unhealthy). Also, what do we know about Tom Riddle? A very charming model student, who had all the teachers and students wrapped around his little finger. But no one knew the true Tom Riddle or saw through the masks (except Dumbledore). He could manipulate almost anyone. Also, he removed anyone who got in this way, with a brutal efficiency. I think this points to a 3-fix (unhealthy). I'm not sure about a gut-fix for him...definitely not 9 lol. Possibly a 8. From the books, Dumbledore told Harry that Voldemort always wanted to do everything on his own, and unlike Harry, Voldemort never sought to make connections, preferring to rely on himself.

So I see Voldemort/Tom Riddle maybe core-3 (3w2) 8w? 5w4, or maybe 8w? 3w2 5w4.

(And yes, as I deconstruct this, I have deconstructed my own tritype as Voldemort's, lol. Completely unintentional I assure you.)
 

Animal

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To the general discussion: I think that Harry is a core-6, granted with a 8-fix, but a core-6 nonetheless. I don't believe that the core motivations are there to justify 8 as a core. Speaking about the anger that is ever-present in book 5, anger does not automatically equal gut type. I personally think that he had untreated PTSD, which would explain a lot.
In what ways would you justify 6-core? Curious.

It's not because of the anger, by the way, that my logic went from 6w5 to 8w9 and then stuck with 8w9 until someone else made a good argument against it. I know that every type can be angry. Everyone has one gut fix or another. It's the idea of the world being a cruel place and him having to look out for himself that I was thinking about, though I will admit it wasn't well thought out. I'm still curious to hear other ideas.

What do you make of 9w8 for his core? Some people on this thread are arguing for it.

I agree that Voldemort is very hard to type, to the point where he might be untypeable. Also, if he is a sociopath, then that makes him even harder to type. But let's break down what we know about him. He was obsessed with power, yes, but also, he was obsessed with hidden and forbidden knowledge, and ancient and dark magic. This obsession for knowledge points to a 5-fix, perhaps (unhealthy). Also, what do we know about Tom Riddle? A very charming model student, who had all the teachers and students wrapped around his little finger. But no one knew the true Tom Riddle or saw through the masks (except Dumbledore). He could manipulate almost anyone. Also, he removed anyone who got in this way, with a brutal efficiency. I think this points to a 3-fix (unhealthy). I'm not sure about a gut-fix for him...definitely not 9 lol. Possibly a 8. From the books, Dumbledore told Harry that Voldemort always wanted to do everything on his own, and unlike Harry, Voldemort never sought to make connections, preferring to rely on himself.

So I see Voldemort/Tom Riddle maybe core-3 (3w2) 8w? 5w4, or maybe 8w? 3w2 5w4.

(And yes, as I deconstruct this, I have deconstructed my own tritype as Voldemort's, lol. Completely unintentional I assure you.)

Muahahaha. ;)

Yours is easily the most villainous tritype, m'lady.
 

madhatter

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In what ways would you justify 6-core? Curious.

A few things:

What is the one thing that Harry desires more than anything? A family. A security net of people, which for the longest time, he never had himself, and in which he finds it with the Weasleys, and continues to build. It's something he's always seeking. He's seeking guidance from authority figures, or maybe trying to replace parental figures, throughout all the 7 books - Mr. and Mrs. Weasley, Dumbledore, Lupin, Sirius. I don't see the go-it-alone, I-don't-need-anybody mentality in Harry. In the end of book 7, he does "go-it-alone" to face Voldemort, but the reasons why he does that are coming from a different place than a need for autonomy and control.

I do think that Harry is CP6. One, his fear is not overtly present in his thought processes, the fact of the matter is he is still motivated by it. He fears losing the new life that he loves, Hogwarts and his friends. Also, Harry doubts and questions himself all the time, doubts his own mind, and exhibits circular 6-ish thinking. He does not think he's the hero that everyone says he is. This label that everyone thrusts on him never truly goes to his head. Two, he doesn't avoid his fears; he faces them head on, in true counterphobic fashion. Also, his rule-breaking and his questioning of authority that he doesn't agree with, which he sees as unfair, like with Snape. Harry does not blindly accept authority. And although 6s do not have a monopoly on loyalty, Harry is completely loyal to his friends, the Weasleys and Dumbledore. Granted, he wavers and questions that, especially when his expectations and illusions of Dumbledore are broken and challenged, but even then he's still loyal to Dumbledore...Dumbledore's man to the last.

His actions are also ruled by superego. He acts to make things right or to help people. He's courageous, but he's got a huge savior/white knight complex. (This is may indicate a 2-fix as well, although I haven't quite pinned this aspect of him.)

Muahahaha. ;)

Yours is easily the most villainous tritype, m'lady.

World dominating 358s unite!!!

I can't help that I'm awesome. ;)
 
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