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  1. #41
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Whoa. You missed A LOT of 4w3 musicians.

    Morrissey
    Sarah McLaughlin
    Paul Simon
    Sade
    Michael Stype
    Brian Ferry
    Dolores O'Riordan (The Cranberries)
    Judy Garland
    Michael Jackson
    Kate Bush
    Jeff Buckley
    Lauren Hill
    Souixsie Sioux
    Pete Townsend
    Boy George
    Karen O (Yeah yeah Yeahs)
    Annie Lennox
    Prince
    Miles Davis
    Edith Piaf
    George Michael
    Fiona Apple
    Rufus Wainwright

    ...with a little help from Login
    Yeah! All of that seems right.

    Except that Lauren Hill seems more like a 7w8, a 9w8 or a couterphobic Sexual 6w5 maybe:
    [youtube=kyFPS_abM1o]Lauren Hill[/youtube]

    Personally, I'd say:

    4w3
    (see the Marm's list above, I think I have nothing to add)

    4w5
    Marilyn Manson

    5w4
    Thom Yorke
    Jim Morrison
    Björk
    Kurt Cobain
    Patti Smith
    John Lennon

    7w8
    Iggy Pop
    Cher
    Mick Jagger
    Joan Jett
    Donita Sparks
    John Lyndon
    Joey Ramones
    Nancy Wilson
    Snoop Dogg
    Easy E
    Klaus Meine

    9w8
    Jimi Hendrix
    Pat Benatar
    Mariah Carey
    Beyoncé
    Rihanna
    Bob Marley
    Sheryl Crow
    Paula Abdul
    Janet Jackson
    Ringo Starr
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

    Chaotic Neutral

    E=60% S=55% T=70% P=80%

    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  2. #42
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    Some others to tack onto the list:
    (added some bands too)

    4w3:
    Stevie Nicks
    Martin Fry (ABC)
    Mahler
    Rachmaninoff
    Anne Dudley (Art of Noise)
    Cathy Dennis
    Eric Clapton
    Gwen Stefani
    Ann Wilson (Heart)
    Howard Jones (?)
    Soft Cell (?)
    Talk Talk
    Tears for Fears
    Ryuichi Sakamoto

    4w5:
    Nik Kershaw
    Art Garfunkel
    Christine McVie (Fleetwood Mac) (?)
    Tony Banks
    Dream Academy
    Gerry Rafferty
    Level 42
    Massive Attack
    Darren Hayes (Savage Garden)
    Brian Wilson

    5w4:
    Peter Gabriel
    Shostakovich (possible 5w6)
    Evanescence (?)
    Kraftwerk (possible 5w6)
    Propaganda
    Steve Hackett
    Thomas Dolby

    7w8:
    Toyah Wilcox
    Billy Idol

    9w8:
    Mike Rutherford (could be 6w5 too)
    Herbie Hancock
    Pat Metheny
    Weather Report
    ELO

    9w1:
    Jean Michel Jarre
    Vangelis
    Yanni
    Enya
    Limahl
    Rod Argent

    Feel free to correct the list.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Johari/Nohari

    “Thoughts are the shadows of our feelings -- always darker, emptier and simpler.”
    ― Friedrich Nietzsche




  3. #43
    brainheart
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    On further reflection, Elliot Smith seems to me the quintessential 4w5. I think this is a very 4w5 thing to say- and a very 4w5 way to say it, avoiding eye contact, etc (at 20 seconds):


    Also, how his lyrics are always kind of in code- he feels pulled to express and reveal, but he doesn't want to reveal too much.


    "I'm never gonna know you now, but I'm gonna love you anyhow"- do you get much more four lyrically than that?

  4. #44
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    I think that Siouxie is a 4w3 So/Sx. Not Sx dom. And an ENTJ.



    Madonna: 3w4 Sx/So
    Lady Gaga: 6w7 Sx/So
    Kylie Minogue: 6w7 Sx/So
    Gwen Stefani: 3w4 Sx/So
    Britney Spears: 3w2 Sx/So ESFP
    Jack Black: 7w8 ENTJ

    Lil' Wayne: ENTP
    Frank Sinatra: ESTJ

    For Tupac, I's say that he was a 6w5. His vision of the world was not 7ish at all.
    agreed on:
    1) Madonna
    2) Lil Wayne (ENTP does make more sense)

    undecided
    1) Britney Spears: she could be ESFP, but she seems ESTP more to me. she could also be either 3 or 7

    disagreed on:
    1) Lady GaGa: she is THE personification of 4w3 which is just about the opposite of a 6. she is outrageous, exotic, passionate, expressive and doesn't care what anyone thinks of her
    2) Frank Sinatra: Frank Sinatra is not SJ at all. ENTJ 8w7 self preservation all the way. SJs listen to frank sinatra because they tend to like stuff that is classic and old school, but if you listen to his lyrics, they're controversial as hell. he follows no rules and will stop at nothing to get what he wants. his messages are actually quite similar to a rapper or a pimp who has a very high opinion of himself and they would be considered quite chauvenistic by today's standards. not that I hold this against him, I find political correctness to be quite a ridiculous and close minded notion
    3) Jack Black: 7w8 and 9w8 are both possibilities, but he is not NT at all. ESFP most likely but possibly ENFP or ENFJ
    4) Gwen Stefani: her fetishes are SO ENFP 4

  5. #45
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    1) Lady GaGa: she is THE personification of 4w3 which is just about the opposite of a 6. she is outrageous, exotic, passionate, expressive and doesn't care what anyone thinks of her
    Let me say that you just don't know what you are talking about:

    1) 6 and 4 are not opposite at all. They are actually "cousins" in the enneagram and frequently mistyped. Especially, sexual 6s tend strongly to be mistyped as 4, and sexual 6w7s as 4w3s Sexual 4w3, especially Sx/So, are dramatic expressive and rebellious. At the opposite, self-pres 4s tend to be mistyped as couterphobic 6. both 4 and 6 value intuition, sensitivity, creativity, they are both innovatives and attract by crisis situation and prone to sustain people who need help or to devote their life to a creative ideal.

    2) The only variant of 6 that you seem to know is the 6w5 Sp/So-6w5 So/Sp wich is often likely to be a rigid follower of the rules and to respect norms and etablishment. That concern just a little part of 6s. At the opposite, many 6s are actually rebelious and don't trust norms and etablishlent. They criticicize it and want to be independant and into their own. Their strongest will is to challenge their fears and to challenge norms and to be independent of what others people think,

    3) Lady Gaga is extremist and want to challenge boundaries. But she's not elitist or aristocratic like 4w3s are. Her 4ish attitude have'nt always been her purpose in her life, it is actually very recent, from 2009 or hardly earlyer. Before that, she was a shy and casual-very normal- girl and still take to pride to be a simple girl of New York who just want to have fun despite she became a megastar. 6s are romantic also, but their romantism is less about their image, like 4, than about power. They give an existential dimension to that question and tend to idealize and romanticize powerful people. In the case of Lady Gaga, she romanticized the star system icon, and wanted to look like them in order to feel powerful and challenge her anxiety. So, she tend to be 3ish, to copy David Bowie, Christina Aguilera, Madona, Andy Wharol, etc, or 7ish to look like Grace Jones, Cher, etc. She's also inspired by some type 4 personality like Rilke or Judy Garland, and applies many of 4ish conceptions about art, because she learned and have been convinced that it is the right thing to do. Her art was very casual and normal before this. An interestin fact is that before she became blond, she was a bubbly brunette who was confound with Amy Winehouse, another 6w7 Sx/So.

    4) The 4ish aspect of Lady Gaga is juste one aspect of her that she exibits. Like many people, you find her creative and original, but it is just your personal opinion, because many others think she's not creative, talented or original at all, but just an attention whore who copyed tons of others artiss before her, or just a Britney Spears clone. That she is superficial and exibitionish, and not eccentric or authentic at all, but artficial and obsessed with money and fame.

    5) The truth is that she rely and want to personify a long tradition of star system icon, from Judy Garland to Lindsay Lohan is order to feel secured. As a 6, she is very focused on group and family. She says her fans are her family and her strongest concer is actually to be loyal to them but also to sustain the gay community that she is strongly commited with a heartleft conviction.

    She is able to display a 4w3ish persona, but this is not her enneatype.

    For Gwen Stefani, she's not melancholic at all, but optimistic and focused on popular succes. She can look 4w3 because it'w valuable to llok eccentric, but she's a 3w4.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

    Chaotic Neutral

    E=60% S=55% T=70% P=80%

    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  6. #46
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Let me say that you just don't know what you are talking about:

    1) 6 and 4 are not opposite at all. They are actually "cousins" in the enneagram and frequently mistyped. Especially, sexual 6s tend strongly to be mistyped as 4, and sexual 6w7s as 4w3s Sexual 4w3, especially Sx/So, are dramatic expressive and rebellious. At the opposite, self-pres 4s tend to be mistyped as couterphobic 6. both 4 and 6 value intuition, sensitivity, creativity, they are both innovatives and attract by crisis situation and prone to sustain people who need help or to devote their life to a creative ideal.

    2) The only variant of 6 that you seem to know is the 6w5 Sp/So-6w5 So/Sp wich is often likely to be a rigid follower of the rules and to respect norms and etablishment. That concern just a little part of 6s. At the opposite, many 6s are actually rebelious and don't trust norms and etablishlent. They criticicize it and want to be independant and into their own. Their strongest will is to challenge their fears and to challenge norms and to be independent of what others people think,

    3) Lady Gaga is extremist and want to challenge boundaries. But she's not elitist or aristocratic like 4w3s are. Her 4ish attitude have'nt always been her purpose in her life, it is actually very recent, from 2009 or hardly earlyer. Before that, she was a shy and casual-very normal- girl and still take to pride to be a simple girl of New York who just want to have fun despite she became a megastar. 6s are romantic also, but their romantism is less about their image, like 4, than about power. They give an existential dimension to that question and tend to idealize and romanticize powerful people. In the case of Lady Gaga, she romanticized the star system icon, and wanted to look like them in order to feel powerful and challenge her anxiety. So, she tend to be 3ish, to copy David Bowie, Christina Aguilera, Madona, Andy Wharol, etc, or 7ish to look like Grace Jones, Cher, etc. She's also inspired by some type 4 personality like Rilke or Judy Garland, and applies many of 4ish conceptions about art, because she learned and have been convinced that it is the right thing to do. Her art was very casual and normal before this. An interestin fact is that before she became blond, she was a bubbly brunette who was confound with Amy Winehouse, another 6w7 Sx/So.

    4) The 4ish aspect of Lady Gaga is juste one aspect of her that she exibits. Like many people, you find her creative and original, but it is just your personal opinion, because many others think she's not creative, talented or original at all, but just an attention whore who copyed tons of others artiss before her, or just a Britney Spears clone. That she is superficial and exibitionish, and not eccentric or authentic at all, but artficial and obsessed with money and fame.

    5) The truth is that she rely and want to personify a long tradition of star system icon, from Judy Garland to Lindsay Lohan is order to feel secured. As a 6, she is very focused on group and family. She says her fans are her family and her strongest concer is actually to be loyal to them but also to sustain the gay community that she is strongly commited with a heartleft conviction.

    She is able to display a 4w3ish persona, but this is not her enneatype.

    For Gwen Stefani, she's not melancholic at all, but optimistic and focused on popular succes. She can look 4w3 because it'w valuable to llok eccentric, but she's a 3w4.
    2) fair enough
    3) a few things
    - she seems aristocratic to me. not in an 80s yup sort of way, but in a in more flashy, exotic sort of way.
    - anxiety? she seems like just about the least anxious person I've ever seen.
    - 4s are not as a whole highly image conscious, that's a 3 thing that is sometimes present in 4w3s, but in fact,most of us abhore the very idea. most 4s (self included) are incredibly self absorbed and see trying to impress others as self belittling and lower value. 4w3s are aristocrats because they do what THEY believe is classy, superior and impressive, whether anyone else agrees with them is generally of little concern. for example, right now, it's considered classy to dress like a hippy and be overly modest and low energy. most people also consider it high status to be busy all the time and have a bunch of material goods. I on the other hand think working all day and having a bunch of cheap, poor quality stuff is LOW status. trully superior people do are all about quality over quantity and doing things whenever is convenient for them and having other people do all the busy work for them whenever possible.

  7. #47
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    PS: what does "counterphobic" mean in terms of the enneagram. I've only heard it used in reference to 6s

  8. #48
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    I think that Siouxie is a 4w3 So/Sx. Not Sx dom. And an ENTJ.
    How is Siouxsie a 4? I think 7w8, NTJ (still not convinced on Te over Ni or vice versa). Her lyrical style is not personal....4 creative works are often highly personal. She does not strike me as a melancholy, introspective kind at all. In interviews she comes off as confident & seems to be experience driven, not the kind to hole up alone to fantasize like a 4. 7s craft very avant garde, outlandish physical images as much if not more than 4s do. 4w3s are known for loving emotional drama - Siouxsie is dramatic in the theatrical sense, as she's a very dynamic performer, but her persona is the "ice queen", and everything about her is controlled. It's not an emotional display.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

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