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[Traditional Enneagram] Ask any questions about Typology here- Enneagram, MBTI, socionics

Night

Boring old fossil
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
4,755
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5/8
So blackcat, what is my enneagram type?

Also what is my socionics type?

Also do you think I am actually an ENTJ?

Also, what are some entj faces I could look at?

Yeah, do me too.


(BlackCat, I mean.)
 

Xander

Lex Parsimoniae
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,463
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9w8
Does socionics add anything to the picture lacking from the other two systems?

I've been told that there's about 17 different systems necessary to apply to a person to adequately define their personality and I'm wondering why should socionics be one of them.
 

JustHer

Pumpernickel
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Messages
1,954
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Also, if enneagram types describe your cognitive distortions, isn't it entirely possible to have more than one ennegram type?
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
So blackcat, what is my enneagram type?

Also what is my socionics type?

Also do you think I am actually an ENTJ?

Also, what are some entj faces I could look at?

Also, if enneagram types describe your cognitive distortions, isn't it entirely possible to have more than one ennegram type?

You're probably an LIE, not sure of Ni or Te subtype.

As for enneagram, yes you can have multiple types. It's called a trifix. You can basically have one type from each grouping (head, heart, body), but this isn't very widely practiced. With people like you who relate equally to 8 and 3, you could easily have these two types in your trifix.

Head types = 5, 6, 7
Body types = 8, 9, 1
Heart types = 2, 3, 4

So for you since you think your main type is 7w8, your trifix could go like this-

7w8-3w2-8w7

In the order that you relate to them, the 7 being your base type.

Remember, you can only have one from each grouping though. That's because everyone has a heart, body, and head. But some people come from different places with their main motivations.

Take me for example... I'm a 9w8-6w5-3w2. I relate least to the heart types overall, but I still have some 3w2 tendencies. I relate to the head types pretty well, but I'm definitely a body type, because I'm 9w8.

I'll post ENTJ faces in the next post... since this is already getting pretty cluttered.

Yeah, do me too.

You always seemed like an ILI-Te to me Night. You seem pretty Gamma.

Intuitive logical introvert - Wikisocion
Gamma Quadra - Wikisocion

Check those out.

Does socionics add anything to the picture lacking from the other two systems?

I've been told that there's about 17 different systems necessary to apply to a person to adequately define their personality and I'm wondering why should socionics be one of them.

Yes, socionics does add something good to the picture. It further defines type based on about 15 other dichotomies, and it describes function placement quite well. The function placement definitions are very, very accurate. I can safely say that socionics is a better system on the surface, but it's a lot more complex. I'm basically still in MBTI/typology mode because I'm bored on these forums. :D

Let me guess, you saw ₪₪₪ Socionics - The New Psychology ₪₪₪, saw that ISTJs were described as having mustaches (okay it doesn't really say that) and you immediately dismissed the entire theory? That's what a lot of people do. Socionics.com is a pretty bad site compared to others.
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Here is a gallery of ENTJs for you to look at. I'll give you the females first, and then at the bottom of the post I'll post the main gallery of ENTJs. There are quotes from the ENTJs as well in these galleries.

Ni-ENTJ females-

Claudia Black <-Has an interview
Louise Lombard

These don't have any quotes or an interview video-

Janet Kidder
Stephanie Leonidas

Te-ENTJ females (no quotes or interview)-

Gia Farrell
Mira Sorvino

Dual pairings, there are 8 ENTJ-ISFJ pairs in this gallery-

Duals

Main website (you get to the other ENTJs by clicking on Gamma)- Gallery

You look a lot like the Ni-ENTJ females. They're all pretty too. :cheese:
 

Xander

Lex Parsimoniae
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,463
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9w8
Yes, socionics does add something good to the picture. It further defines type based on about 15 other dichotomies, and it describes function placement quite well. The function placement definitions are very, very accurate. I can safely say that socionics is a better system on the surface, but it's a lot more complex. I'm basically still in MBTI/typology mode because I'm bored on these forums. :D

Let me guess, you saw ₪₪₪ Socionics - The New Psychology ₪₪₪, saw that ISTJs were described as having mustaches (okay it doesn't really say that) and you immediately dismissed the entire theory? That's what a lot of people do. Socionics.com is a pretty bad site compared to others.
I'm afraid I'm coming from rather a blank slate. I've never investigated Scocionics before and I was interested in how you saw it fit in to the larger picture. I have read before an argument or two on a comparison of the systems but it was by two people who knew both systems on INTPc and they neither illuminated me nor made sense.
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I'm afraid I'm coming from rather a blank slate. I've never investigated Scocionics before and I was interested in how you saw it fit in to the larger picture. I have read before an argument or two on a comparison of the systems but it was by two people who knew both systems on INTPc and they neither illuminated me nor made sense.

Ah okay. Well it's a very good system if you amass it. A lot of people primarily use MBTI and just use socionics to understand themselves a lot better with the function placements and dichotomy definitions. Wikisocion is a great place to start, it's up there in the long post.
 

Xander

Lex Parsimoniae
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,463
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9w8
Ah okay. Well it's a very good system if you amass it. A lot of people primarily use MBTI and just use socionics to understand themselves a lot better with the function placements and dichotomy definitions. Wikisocion is a great place to start, it's up there in the long post.

Lol. I read Wisconsin first time :doh:
 

JustHer

Pumpernickel
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Messages
1,954
MBTI Type
ENTJ
How do subtypes work?

Also, thank you =D.

Also, how do you explain a horrible mismatch with your "duel"?
ISFJs do not work for me.
 

nzAShadow

New member
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
64
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
9w1
Wikisocion home - Wikisocion
The Socionist

The blog doesn't have all of the information about socionics, but it's a very good resource for what it has. I wouldn't judge Fe as something you don't use until you read it on his blog- Socionics : Extraverted Ethics

Thanks for the links, there is a lot of information here. However, are extraverted intution and extraverted feeling the only functions with a detailed description? I am actually more interested in functions than types, so this is somewhat important to me.

I am an MBTI INFP, and I score INTP in socionics, I am wondering if this is reasonable, since the Socionic's website says MBTI INFP correlates most with Socionics INFJ in the who's who section.

I have trouble through typing myself through type descriptions, I simply see myself in too many types, which is why I place a lot of emphasis on function mechanics. So if it's possible having socionic's view on each function and their attitudes would be amazing.

I apologize if I'm being to picky :blushing:
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
How do subtypes work?

Also, thank you =D.

Also, how do you explain a horrible mismatch with your "duel"?
ISFJs do not work for me.

There have been a lot of theories on how subtypes work, but to put it simply there are some people who use their first function a lot, and some people who are pretty balanced. I use my first function the most socionics wise, so I'm an Si-SEI. You can get pretty Ni, so I'd say Ni-ENTJ. You aren't an overwhelming force of Te.

...Although a Te-ENTJ would be more in touch with her Fe. Hmm. Since If Te is strengthened, then the role Fe would be strengthened as well. Since that's basically doing Te that looks like Fe, and you do that a lot. But like I said, you aren't an overwhelming force of Te. But that may be because you're a 7?

Of course there can be duals that you hate. Lol.

Thanks for the links, there is a lot of information here. However, are extraverted intution and extraverted feeling the only functions with a detailed description? I am actually more interested in functions than types, so this is somewhat important to me.

I am an MBTI INFP, and I score INTP in socionics, I am wondering if this is reasonable, since the Socionic's website says MBTI INFP correlates most with Socionics INFJ in the who's who section.

I have trouble through typing myself through type descriptions, I simply see myself in too many types, which is why I place a lot of emphasis on function mechanics. So if it's possible having socionic's view on each function and their attitudes would be amazing.

I apologize if I'm being to picky :blushing:

Go to Wikisocion and look at the function placement definitions. That will answer your questions on the functions. And yes, it does bug me that that blog only has a good definition of Ne and Fe.

A lot of people on wikisocion are mistyped, so the descriptions of the type profiles can be a bit off. As far as I know there is an SEI who thinks she's an IEI, that contributed to the IEI profile. Also an EII who thinks they're an IEI contributing. Eh. I wouldn't trust them.

And you're NOT an ILI/INTp. At all. No questions. You aren't an Fe PoLR, at all. If tests were reliable then my type would be INTX, since I regularly score INTP or INTJ with a borderline P/J depending on my mood.

PoLR Fe for ILI from the wiki linked below-

ILIs are typically out of touch with expressing their emotional states. They are often seen as cold, unresponsive, and undesiring of human contact (which is often not the case). As a consequence, ILIs tend to be somewhat reclusive and often feel out of touch with their social surroundings. The rules of the social "game" are often very poorly understood by ILIs. The are often unconfident and uneasy in social settings, especially those in which they feel that are expected to abide by social conventions that they have little connection to such as tribesmanship or purposeless joviality. Additionally, ILIs tend to regard the development of trust with others with significant anxiety, fearing that their inner world or antisocial tendencies will be unfavorably looked upon by social convention. Often ILIs eschew many social situations and neglect emotional association with groups, instead seeking deep emotional connections with individuals.


ILIs are often seen as especially negative, harsh, and overly critical. This is in part because ILIs -- when serious -- tend to communicate in a direct, straightforward manner. They usually are not aware of others' reactions to their ideas and avoid sugar-coating them. Many ILIs see their criticism as constructive and believe that they would be doing others no good by withholding their ideas. Because of their incessant criticism and negativism, ILIs are sometimes seen as haughty or arrogant.


That isn't you at all.


And just ignore the correlations. It seems like you're sticking to the j/p swap in your mind. That needs to go away. :)

This website, although incomplete, has a lot of very good profiles on it- IEI - WSWiki There is the IEI profile. These profiles are written by a guy who knows his stuff generally.
 

nzAShadow

New member
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
64
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
9w1
Ok, thanks for letting me know what to watch out for, while I read this material.

So the J/P swap isn't necessarily accurate. I don't remember exactly where I got it from, I think I've either read a lot of people mention it, or I noticed the change in the dominant function.

Although one more question. Why do you think Socionics adopted the same labels and termonology as other systems, when they also have their own termonology? Is this a common practice in the typology field?

It's like I'm taking a math class under one teacher one year, and the x variable will apply to the normal x axis, then the next year I get a different teacher, and he decides to make x refer to the y axis. At least that what it feels like to me, lol.
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
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ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I guess because they're lazy? lol

All of this branches from what Yung wrote about, but socionics made it much different from what MBTI's makers interpreted the functions as.
 

nzAShadow

New member
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
64
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
9w1
Alright, time to read with a new perspective in mind. Thanks.

I may be back within the week with new questions, if not, then again thanks, lol.
 

Costrin

rawr
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
2,320
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
5w4
Rawr.

Although one more question. Why do you think Socionics adopted the same labels and termonology as other systems, when they also have their own termonology? Is this a common practice in the typology field?

Because it was developed by Russians, then when them Russian peeps came to english speaking world and found out about MBTI, they thought it was the same thing, so they applied MBTI labels to their stuffs, but then they realized the two systems were actually quite different, so they switched back to the way they did it back in Russia.

Also, how do you explain a horrible mismatch with your "duel"?
ISFJs do not work for me.

Either one or more of you is mistyped, or you're incompatible for non socionics reasons. Like if your duals a jerk, then (s)he is a jerk, and socionics doesn't magically make you love him/her.
 

JustHer

Pumpernickel
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Messages
1,954
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Either one or more of you is mistyped, or you're incompatible for non socionics reasons. Like if you're duals a jerk, then (s)he is a jerk, and socionics doesn't magically make you love him/her.

No this wasn't about a specific person, I mean in general. I have a hard time understanding how myself and an ISFJ could really connect beyond a superficial level. It's a really weird pairing in general.



@ blackcat: What is meant by the psychological distance in a supervisory relationship? How exactly does the superiority manifest itself?
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Well supervision is kind of a weird relationship for the supervisee. I suppose I could use an example of my ESTJ friend girl as a supervisor.

I just feel very awkward letting her get close in my life, because well, she's my supervisor! But she isn't really overbearing or anything like that, and she's actually really nice. I just sometimes felt awkward about her, especially when she would get critical about a decision I would make.

But eh, we've known each other for a long time, and most of that's dissolved for the most part. Since we know each other so well and all. With your supervisor you just have to tell yourself that they don't MEAN to do that.

I also had similar issues with my ENFJ mom. She used to think that I was just being an asshole and being overly critical of her, when I didn't mean that at all. But I've done some explaining to her about socionics and typology, and it's fine now. She sees my Si as something that's good and not something that puts her on the spot about her mistakes now.

Your supervisor would be ISTP by the way @ justxher.
 

nzAShadow

New member
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
64
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
9w1
Alright, I've now taken an interest into Socionics. Is there a decent forum for Socionics discussions that isn't predominantly in Russian?

Also one for Enneagram would be great, I haven't ran into a good Enneagram forum yet.
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
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Enneagram
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sx/sp
There is basically one socionics forum, but it's filled with drama and people who are jaded about the theory. There are also a lot of people who have been there going on five years, and who just don't care anymore and just socialize.

the16types.info Socionics Forums - A forum about Socionics Use extreme caution... They are very warped in how they understand these things. They think that MBTI is strictly the 4 dichotomies and think that it's all garbage. It's not taken well over there.

However there is a lot to learn on the forum if you just look around... I'd just lurk.

I'm not sure about an enneagram one.
 
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