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  1. #11
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Well, there are some people that get conflicted between two I'm sure, but I don't really see how. Gamma and Alpha are just so different. Gamma values Fi, Se, Ni, and Te. While Alpha values Ti, Ne, Si, and Fe. Totally different. And as a result, they have very different traits and such.

    Plus if you were on the fence about ILI and LII, then I'd say a good way to determine what you are would be to read more into the reinen dichotomies (these really clear some things up) since ILI and LII are very different when it comes to these. Another way would be to determine who your dual is (ESFp vs ESFj).
    On a note: You said that gamma values Fi, Se, Ni and Te. If I remember correctly those were all the traits of the INTJ.

    On the issue although they are totally different some people surely can get conflicted between two.
    An example would be in MBTI one may be 49% Thinker and 51% Feeler. They are opposed to each other yet it is not 'Black or White' and one may appeal to both.

    I'm sorry for not understanding about the ILI and LII. I'm not so great at socionics.

  2. #12
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    On a note: You said that gamma values Fi, Se, Ni and Te. If I remember correctly those were all the traits of the INTJ.
    In Socionics, ILI (INTp) is NiTe, LII (INTj) is TiNe.
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
    - Costrin

  3. #13
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    In Socionics, ILI (INTp) is NiTe, LII (INTj) is TiNe.
    I see... Im starting to get the gist of it.
    I got a bit confused back there. I accidentally mixed MBTI with socionics.
    Last edited by Oaky; 08-18-2009 at 04:39 PM.

  4. #14

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    Thank you for this thread, BlackCat.

    I've always been confused about the following:

    1. What does it mean when someone uses a lowercase letter in their type? (e.g., ENfP)

    2. What do Fe, Ni, etc. mean? Do these relate to how the functions are expressed, like extraverted feeling, etc.?

    3. Related to my last question, I don't understand the descriptions I've read about what one's dominant function versus non-dominant function is. For example, if you're ENFP, that means your N is extraverted and your F is introverted? I don't know how to come up with this determination, or what it even means. I'm XNFX. I know my F is both extraverted and introverted. I'm probably slightly more of an E than an I, but nevertheless, my F is very much directed both inward and outward.....

    thanks!

  5. #15
    Welcome to Sunnyside Mondo's Avatar
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    Can you give an example or two as to when someone would be a different MBTI type from Socionics type?
    From reading the descriptions of MBTI/Socionics.. the descriptions sound virtually the same for each type- at least the ILE/ENTP are basically the same.
    MBTI Type: iNTj
    Enneagram Type: 3w4 sp/sx

  6. #16
    Magical BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psyche View Post
    Thank you for this thread, BlackCat.

    I've always been confused about the following:

    1. What does it mean when someone uses a lowercase letter in their type? (e.g., ENfP)

    2. What do Fe, Ni, etc. mean? Do these relate to how the functions are expressed, like extraverted feeling, etc.?

    3. Related to my last question, I don't understand the descriptions I've read about what one's dominant function versus non-dominant function is. For example, if you're ENFP, that means your N is extraverted and your F is introverted? I don't know how to come up with this determination, or what it even means. I'm XNFX. I know my F is both extraverted and introverted. I'm probably slightly more of an E than an I, but nevertheless, my F is very much directed both inward and outward.....

    thanks!
    1. A lower case letter indicates a weak preference. Like, borderline S and N, would be, for example, an IsTJ.

    2. I think you're just approaching the system in the wrong way... have you actually found any function descriptions? The way MBTI's types are set up-

    A P type will have Se or Ne in the first two. A J type will have Fe or Te in the first two.

    Then add E or I. Extroverts must have an extroverted function up front, introverts must have an introverted function up front.

    Then factor in N and S. S types have a sensing function in the first two, N types have an intuitive function in the first two. The same applies for feeling and thinking.

    So, as an ENFP, you are a P type, so you have Ne or Se. As an N, you have Ne. As an E, you have Ne up front. As a feeler, you have Fi as a secondary.

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...finitions.html

    Read that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mondo View Post
    Can you give an example or two as to when someone would be a different MBTI type from Socionics type?
    From reading the descriptions of MBTI/Socionics.. the descriptions sound virtually the same for each type- at least the ILE/ENTP are basically the same.
    It just happens. You have to factor in a lot of other things other than the type itself. The reinen dichotomies, their quadra, what they can relate to as a PoLR, how the relationships play themselves out etc. MBTI isn't socionics in any way, shape, or form. If you're going to learn it you need to forget about MBTI, or at least separate the two in your mind.

    I'm an example of the type being different. In MBTI I'm an INFP, and in socionics I'm an ISFj. This is because I relate perfectly to the gamma quadra, the relationships, all of the reinen dichotomies fit, and I relate to socionics Ne as a main weakness. I know an ENTP who is an ENFp in socionics, two INFPs I'm close to are an EII and an IEI, they are very different but are still INFP in MBTI. I know an ENFP who's ENFj in socionics. It's very different. There isn't a set translation whatsoever.

    Socionics is much more precise, it's just a generally better system in my opinion.

    Socionics is different from MBTI because their functions are defined differently.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  7. #17
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    About the Enneagram . . . I'm wondering if you think it's possible that I'm a type Four even though I'm emotionally dead most of the time. In every other way, type Four is spot-on for me; it's just that one thing that's off.

    For Socionics. What would you say to someone (like me) who doesn't feel that they fit smugly within that system? I've looked at the Reinin dichotomies, and I fall all over the place,* without any single type that possesses all of my Reinin traits. As for the main types, I relate to the dominant functions of all four INXXs, especially Ni, but not very much to any of their secondary functions.

    *Delta, Positivist, Declaring, Farsighted, Result, Strategic, Democratic, Judicious, Yielding, Constructivist, and Merry.

    For my MBTI question . . . I have none.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  8. #18
    Senior Member snegledmaca's Avatar
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    I have no connection to the maker of this thread or the purpose of this thread, but I would advise against using reinin dichotomies. IMO all they do is confuse people as they IMO have no practical merit. IMO in the state they are now they are nothing more the Ti mental masturbation that has little connection to reality. Most of them are IMO make belief produced from trying to bend reality to pretty mathematical patterns. I am not claiming that the mathematics behind them is invalid, but I have not seen any indication that they are relevant IRL or significant in assessing one's type. From my experience they tend to be vague and difficultly distinguishable IRL. If at all. More often an obstacle then help.

  9. #19
    Magical BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca View Post
    I have no connection to the maker of this thread or the purpose of this thread, but I would advise against using reinin dichotomies. IMO all they do is confuse people as they IMO have no practical merit. IMO in the state they are now they are nothing more the Ti mental masturbation that has little connection to reality. Most of them are IMO make belief produced from trying to bend reality to pretty mathematical patterns. I am not claiming that the mathematics behind them is invalid, but I have not seen any indication that they are relevant IRL or significant in assessing one's type. From my experience they tend to be vague and difficultly distinguishable IRL. If at all. More often an obstacle then help.
    Yeah I know what you mean. In my experience it either really helps someone or really confuses them, since they either fit into most if not all, or they are all over the place (getting confused more). I advised the use of them because they helped me personally, but yeah. Thanks for pointing that out.

    If they confuse you, don't take them too seriously. The function placements and quadra and way more important.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  10. #20

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    Thanks for your response.

    To be honest, I still don't understand the Se, etc. and the link you posted I'd already visited. The information there presupposes a lot more knowledge of the MBTI than I have. I have yet to find a source that explains in simple language what is meant by having an introverted versus extraverted function, etc. -- or what Se, etc. even mean. If you know of a source, I'd love to be referred to it. But I appreciate your response.

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