...Enneagram Corner

[Delphyne]

Marcy, please tell me something about the humor of Eights. How do they express their funny side?

 

[Delphyne]

That's a good description, I like it, what makes it 9w8 over 1 though?

9w8s are a lot more easygoing than 9w1s. In some ways they`re also more numbed, whereas 9w1 seem to be upset a lot of the time. An Eight-wing expresses itself in direct angry eruptions from time to time, though most of the time they`re fine with going along or they leave unpleasant situations. 9w1s have a harder time of letting go.

 

[Delphyne]

I am determined to bring him to justice so please...if you have any leads send me a line.

Got him!

 

[MellowMarcello]

That`s not solely a Five thing. The need to recharge their energy is true of all introverts.

The recharging needed was not from exposure to the world or other people...but from finding introspecting deeply too taxing. That isn't 4.

 

[MellowMarcello]

It`s actually double-edged. Fours have an excessive pride in feeling different from others, but there`s also a feeling of being defect and not normal. Which of these feelings predominates depends from Four to Four. Having such an deep-ingrained pride of feeling different, there`s naturally a fear of not being different at all. Of being normal and boring.

You should see both parts...the pride/elitism and the defectiveness. I'm not sensing the 4ish pride/elitism. The last thing they should do is cancel out each other.

 

[MellowMarcello]

Marcy, please tell me something about the humor of Eights. How do they express their funny side?

From what I know of the type 8 they have morbid sense of humor.

 

[MellowMarcello]

Got him!

Just in case we got the wrong person and the real criminal is still out there I ought to list this again:

$$$$$$$$$$ WANTED!! $$$$$$$$$$

 

[MellowMarcello]

I am actually both. I cannot live a life as an extrovert as it is too draining for me to deal with people all the time. I will suffocate if I do not have some time alone in my inner world to recharge myself.

Ironically, if I introspect for too long, I will have my soul staying in my inner world while having my shell dealing with the outer world and other practical matters. It will take a while or may even be a long time before I can integrate again.

However, if I introspect too deeply, I will also be killing myself...I get too exhausted and have no energy left to deal with anything else.

The longer and deeper your introspection the more out of your element you are...this isn't 4. You don't have as much 4 in you as you think you do and you got more 3 in you than you realize.

 

[MellowMarcello]

I find it interesting...

A Five thinks I am a Five.
A Four thinks I am a Four.
A Five thinks I am not a Four.
A Four thinks I am not a Five.

How about a type which is between 4 and 5 but not a 4 with a 5 wing or a 5 with a 4 wing, say Type 4.5 (not a 4 and not a 5)?

4w5s intentionally put forth an absurdly original image of themselves...like this is the real me...I'm not like those other image-conscious posers. I'm the real me and here it is. Unlike others I stay true to myself through thick and thin and I've paid the price for it. See...I got these stigmata wounds to show for it...and I wouldn't have it any other way. There's a slight "in your face" twinge to the image the 4w5 presents to others. The more people don't understand them the more it affirms how they are too complex for cretins they have comtempt for to understand them. The more they suffer for who they are the more they score points with themselves over their personal authenticity.

4w5s are less fantastical and have more pride in how different they are than you. I am starting to think you don't fully understand how 4w5s uglifying themselves contrasts with your 3ish putting your most competent foot forward. I also think you not realizing how much 3ness you have inside you(I think you have more 3ness inside you than any 5w4 I've seen) makes you misread people who have less 3ness in them...like you overproject that people put a minimum amount of their best stuff for others see while 4w5s have a much greater pride in being veiled.

 

[MellowMarcello]

I think the reason you hit a roadblock with the enneagram was because the 3w4 and 1w2 energies in your personality beyond the "cool" 5w4 sx/sp main type and stacking weren't flattering to you. You may think they make you less desireable but 3w4 and 1w2 are just type energies nothing more nothing less. Part of growth or whatever that's called is being able to come to grips with your full type including what doesn't sound good to you.

 

[Delphyne]

The recharging needed was not from exposure to the world or other people...but from finding introspecting deeply too taxing. That isn't 4.

Okay, the shell was meant as opposing the inner life. I misunderstood it. You`re right, that isn`t Four.

You should see both parts...the pride/elitism and the defectiveness. I'm not sensing the 4ish pride/elitism. The last thing they should do is cancel out each other.

I was talking about both parts. They don`t cancel out each other, but the proportions differ from Four to Four and are depending on circumstances and moods. I`m not sensing pride or elitism either, but I`m open for the possibility that it might be there and will surface after a little time. Your typing of Lostlove as 5w4 is a bit of puzzle, given your immediate elimination of 4w5. Pride and elitism are also found with 5w4s, especially with sx/sp ones.

 

[Delphyne]

From what I know of the type 8 they have morbid sense of humor.

Oh mighty Marcello, thanks. May your fur never lose its glamour.

 

[MellowMarcello]

Oh I think she has pride and elitism...but it's more of a pride and elitism in being competent, smart, and "cool" than the 4w5ish pride in "paying the price for staying true to themselves"...or the 4w3ish aristocrat pride. She weeps about she is different and how the 4 description really hits her emotionally...but she takes pride in being above avg in math and computing and being good at school stuff...being smart basically...little hints like...I didn't study as much as people think I did and when I did it was at the last minute...I declined the honor roll invitation...the 8 factorial thing with the number of function combinations...little things like that.

 

[Delphyne]

I find it interesting...

A Five thinks I am a Five.
A Four thinks I am a Four.
A Five thinks I am not a Four.
A Four thinks I am not a Five.

Of whom are you writing? Which Five?

I don`t think you`re definitively a Four, I just can`t rule it out at the moment. 4w5 is very unlikely, also 5w4 and 5w6.
Once I met someone online who thought of herself as 4w5 like you do. I didn`t saw her as Four and told her so. As I wasn`t the only one, she wasn`t pleased. Quite the opposite. After some time I had to revise my typing of her. 4w3s are in some ways different than 4w5s and she was one.
For now, I can`t sense your pattern. Maybe it becomes clearer someday.

My sister who self-typed herself as 4w5 said most Fours like cats and are right-brain dominant. I don't think it was a joke. She really believed it herself. She thought I was too logical (only from her point of view as she was super-subjective in my opinion) so I must be a left-brain type.

Do you see your sister as a 4w5? How do you see her?
The rest you wrote isn`t especially Fourish, but can be found with all NFs.

Being self-referential is also a Five characteristics as well? What exactly is "self-referential" referring to? I am a bit confused here...how can anyone not be referring to anything else other than themselves?

Talking about reading a book somewhere is still referring to the book, referring to an idea in a thread suggested by someone in a forum is still referring to someone's idea, telling others your personality test results is still referring to the test.

You mentioned you read somewhere about NF being about the "box", is this not "self-referential"? Marcy suggested someone to read the R&H book and referred to a thread about 5w4 and 6w5, is this not "self-referential"? I do not mean to attack anyone, just curious...

There`s a difference between referring to something because you have thought it through and it fits with your experiences or referring to something because someone or a tests just told you. I don`t think Marcy suggested treating the R&H book as your new enneagram bible and wanted you to linger on every line.
Take a look at page 10. Marcy asked you about how much you did know about the enneagram and you posted your test results in return. Why. Did you find the tests particularly helpful and reliable?

 

[Delphyne]

Oh I think she has pride and elitism...but it's more of a pride and elitism in being competent, smart, and "cool" than the 4w5ish pride in "paying the price for staying true to themselves"...or the 4w3ish aristocrat pride. She weeps about she is different and how the 4 description really hits her emotionally...but she takes pride in being above avg in math and computing and being good at school stuff...being smart basically...little hints like...I didn't study as much as people think I did and when I did it was at the last minute...I declined the honor roll invitation...the 8 factorial thing with the number of function combinations...little things like that.

Yes, that`s why I`m considering 4w3. Not sure if she has the 4w3ish pride. With Fives it`s not so much a pride in doing well in school as in knowing a lot about a special subject. I know a 5w4 with quite some threeish flavor, but Lovelost feels very different compared with him. Also this 5w4 has an eightish feel, which I can`t sense in Lostlove`s posts. Can you?

 

[Delphyne]

Marcy, I`m interested in your opinion of this man. What do you think his type is?
YouTube - Eli Jaxon-Bear. Full Responsibility

 

[MellowMarcello]

Being self-referential is also a Five characteristics as well? What exactly is "self-referential" referring to? I am a bit confused here...how can anyone not be referring to anything else other than themselves?

Of all types 4s place the most importance on putting their own spin on something...their own perspective. If I saw a four cut and paste a sizeable description and said they are a 4 that would be a red flag as what they are taking onto their identity is an unfiltered creation of someone else(a test or description author).

Basically a self-proclaimed 4 going in so many words...

"I am a 4 because of someone else's description"

goes too much against their self-perception that they are unique and original. They can get around that by looking at the type 4 description...and then writing in their own words why they think they are a 4. Same with a test...they can interpret the test and say they are a 4 because of 4ish qualities they have inside them as opposed to the test scores themselves.

 

[MellowMarcello]

Yes, that`s why I`m considering 4w3. Not sure if she has the 4w3ish pride. With Fives it`s not so much a pride in doing well in school as in knowing a lot about a special subject. I know a 5w4 with quite some threeish flavor, but Lovelost feels very different compared with him. Also this 5w4 has an eightish feel, which I can`t sense in Lostlove`s posts. Can you?

I think 5s pride themselves in having a powerful mind...of which being smart and competent is a reflection of. They inherently know their mind is the main thing they got going for them. With 4s their main thing that they know they got going for them is their ability to probe deeply like no one else can. I can't see 4w3ness in her either for this reason in addition to hardly anything aristocratic about her.

I hardly sense any 8ness in lostlove either...but a lot of 5s don't have 8ness in them. Sometimes I think the 5 line to 8 listed in the books was put in there to boost 5 self-esteem(4s and 5s probably buy a disproportionate number of enneagram books).

 

[Delphyne]

I think 5s pride themselves in having a powerful mind...of which being smart and competent is a reflection of.

I agree, but like I wrote Fives are not so much interested in doing well in school nor do they normally tell how smart they are, rather than showing their knowledge. It`s more threeish first to tell of your achievements which includes being smart and competent.

I hardly sense any 8ness in lostlove either...but a lot of 5s don't have 8ness in them. Sometimes I think the 5 line to 8 listed in the books was put in there to boost 5 self-esteem(4s and 5s probably buy a disproportionate number of enneagram books).

In my experience it`s the sp Fives who normally don`t have much Eightness in them. You typed her as sx/sp Five and they are a lot sharper than her.

 

[MellowMarcello]

Marcy, I`m interested in your opinion of this man. What do you think his type is?
YouTube - Eli Jaxon-Bear. Full Responsibility

First impression is 3w2 from his video...probably so/sx...will look into this guy further to see if he is a 2.