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  1. #191
    Senior Member Delphyne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MellowMarcello View Post
    The recharging needed was not from exposure to the world or other people...but from finding introspecting deeply too taxing. That isn't 4.
    Okay, the shell was meant as opposing the inner life. I misunderstood it. You`re right, that isn`t Four.

    You should see both parts...the pride/elitism and the defectiveness. I'm not sensing the 4ish pride/elitism. The last thing they should do is cancel out each other.
    I was talking about both parts. They don`t cancel out each other, but the proportions differ from Four to Four and are depending on circumstances and moods. I`m not sensing pride or elitism either, but I`m open for the possibility that it might be there and will surface after a little time. Your typing of Lostlove as 5w4 is a bit of puzzle, given your immediate elimination of 4w5. Pride and elitism are also found with 5w4s, especially with sx/sp ones.

  2. #192
    Senior Member Delphyne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MellowMarcello View Post
    From what I know of the type 8 they have morbid sense of humor.
    Oh mighty Marcello, thanks. May your fur never lose its glamour.

  3. #193
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    Oh I think she has pride and elitism...but it's more of a pride and elitism in being competent, smart, and "cool" than the 4w5ish pride in "paying the price for staying true to themselves"...or the 4w3ish aristocrat pride. She weeps about she is different and how the 4 description really hits her emotionally...but she takes pride in being above avg in math and computing and being good at school stuff...being smart basically...little hints like...I didn't study as much as people think I did and when I did it was at the last minute...I declined the honor roll invitation...the 8 factorial thing with the number of function combinations...little things like that.

  4. #194
    Senior Member Delphyne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostlove View Post
    I find it interesting...

    A Five thinks I am a Five.
    A Four thinks I am a Four.
    A Five thinks I am not a Four.
    A Four thinks I am not a Five.
    Of whom are you writing? Which Five?

    I don`t think you`re definitively a Four, I just can`t rule it out at the moment. 4w5 is very unlikely, also 5w4 and 5w6.
    Once I met someone online who thought of herself as 4w5 like you do. I didn`t saw her as Four and told her so. As I wasn`t the only one, she wasn`t pleased. Quite the opposite. After some time I had to revise my typing of her. 4w3s are in some ways different than 4w5s and she was one.
    For now, I can`t sense your pattern. Maybe it becomes clearer someday.

    My sister who self-typed herself as 4w5 said most Fours like cats and are right-brain dominant. I don't think it was a joke. She really believed it herself. She thought I was too logical (only from her point of view as she was super-subjective in my opinion) so I must be a left-brain type.
    Do you see your sister as a 4w5? How do you see her?
    The rest you wrote isn`t especially Fourish, but can be found with all NFs.

    Being self-referential is also a Five characteristics as well? What exactly is "self-referential" referring to? I am a bit confused here...how can anyone not be referring to anything else other than themselves?

    Talking about reading a book somewhere is still referring to the book, referring to an idea in a thread suggested by someone in a forum is still referring to someone's idea, telling others your personality test results is still referring to the test.

    You mentioned you read somewhere about NF being about the "box", is this not "self-referential"? Marcy suggested someone to read the R&H book and referred to a thread about 5w4 and 6w5, is this not "self-referential"? I do not mean to attack anyone, just curious...
    There`s a difference between referring to something because you have thought it through and it fits with your experiences or referring to something because someone or a tests just told you. I don`t think Marcy suggested treating the R&H book as your new enneagram bible and wanted you to linger on every line.
    Take a look at page 10. Marcy asked you about how much you did know about the enneagram and you posted your test results in return. Why. Did you find the tests particularly helpful and reliable?

  5. #195
    Senior Member Delphyne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MellowMarcello View Post
    Oh I think she has pride and elitism...but it's more of a pride and elitism in being competent, smart, and "cool" than the 4w5ish pride in "paying the price for staying true to themselves"...or the 4w3ish aristocrat pride. She weeps about she is different and how the 4 description really hits her emotionally...but she takes pride in being above avg in math and computing and being good at school stuff...being smart basically...little hints like...I didn't study as much as people think I did and when I did it was at the last minute...I declined the honor roll invitation...the 8 factorial thing with the number of function combinations...little things like that.
    Yes, that`s why I`m considering 4w3. Not sure if she has the 4w3ish pride. With Fives it`s not so much a pride in doing well in school as in knowing a lot about a special subject. I know a 5w4 with quite some threeish flavor, but Lovelost feels very different compared with him. Also this 5w4 has an eightish feel, which I can`t sense in Lostlove`s posts. Can you?

  6. #196
    Senior Member Delphyne's Avatar
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    Marcy, I`m interested in your opinion of this man. What do you think his type is?
    YouTube - Eli Jaxon-Bear. Full Responsibility

  7. #197
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    Being self-referential is also a Five characteristics as well? What exactly is "self-referential" referring to? I am a bit confused here...how can anyone not be referring to anything else other than themselves?
    Of all types 4s place the most importance on putting their own spin on something...their own perspective. If I saw a four cut and paste a sizeable description and said they are a 4 that would be a red flag as what they are taking onto their identity is an unfiltered creation of someone else(a test or description author).

    Basically a self-proclaimed 4 going in so many words...

    "I am a 4 because of someone else's description"

    goes too much against their self-perception that they are unique and original. They can get around that by looking at the type 4 description...and then writing in their own words why they think they are a 4. Same with a test...they can interpret the test and say they are a 4 because of 4ish qualities they have inside them as opposed to the test scores themselves.

  8. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delphyne View Post
    Yes, that`s why I`m considering 4w3. Not sure if she has the 4w3ish pride. With Fives it`s not so much a pride in doing well in school as in knowing a lot about a special subject. I know a 5w4 with quite some threeish flavor, but Lovelost feels very different compared with him. Also this 5w4 has an eightish feel, which I can`t sense in Lostlove`s posts. Can you?
    I think 5s pride themselves in having a powerful mind...of which being smart and competent is a reflection of. They inherently know their mind is the main thing they got going for them. With 4s their main thing that they know they got going for them is their ability to probe deeply like no one else can. I can't see 4w3ness in her either for this reason in addition to hardly anything aristocratic about her.

    I hardly sense any 8ness in lostlove either...but a lot of 5s don't have 8ness in them. Sometimes I think the 5 line to 8 listed in the books was put in there to boost 5 self-esteem(4s and 5s probably buy a disproportionate number of enneagram books).

  9. #199
    Senior Member Delphyne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MellowMarcello View Post
    I think 5s pride themselves in having a powerful mind...of which being smart and competent is a reflection of.
    I agree, but like I wrote Fives are not so much interested in doing well in school nor do they normally tell how smart they are, rather than showing their knowledge. It`s more threeish first to tell of your achievements which includes being smart and competent.

    I hardly sense any 8ness in lostlove either...but a lot of 5s don't have 8ness in them. Sometimes I think the 5 line to 8 listed in the books was put in there to boost 5 self-esteem(4s and 5s probably buy a disproportionate number of enneagram books).
    In my experience it`s the sp Fives who normally don`t have much Eightness in them. You typed her as sx/sp Five and they are a lot sharper than her.

  10. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delphyne View Post
    Marcy, I`m interested in your opinion of this man. What do you think his type is?
    YouTube - Eli Jaxon-Bear. Full Responsibility
    First impression is 3w2 from his video...probably so/sx...will look into this guy further to see if he is a 2.

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