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  1. #11
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Hm. I'd suspect INTX enneagram 2's aren't as rare as we think. I don't correlate NT will lack of helper mentality, granted the fears of desire might have a different flavour to them than it would be of feeler.

    Enneagram 8 for feelers is unusual, but that can be chalked down to extraversion. It'd make sense that these individuals might have a high amount of 1 within them. It's hard imagining an IXFJ enneagram 8, but I could imagine an IXFP who has adopted on enneagram 8 like values with Fi. Fi can be extremely diverse imo.

    My enneagram fits with my type. Kinda normal tbh.
    6w5 followed by (9/2/4/1) There's little 3/7/8 within me.

    I'd like to think that most people will identify somewhat with enneagram 4, most people want to be unique and all that. But I guess it's a case of identifying that as your core self. My IXFP friend typed as a 4 (PS. Blackcat, it seems that there's a possability she was an ISFP after all. I was just being stupidly blind with the whole Se behaviour.)

  2. #12
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    1 comes with a desire for moral perfection, 2 has a strong desire to help other people, and 8 likes to take charge. I think all of those make a whole lot of sense for ExFJ.
    Hit the nail on the head .. 2w1
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
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  3. #13
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Hm. I'd suspect INTX enneagram 2's aren't as rare as we think. I don't correlate NT will lack of helper mentality, granted the fears of desire might have a different flavour to them than it would be of feeler.
    I think my issue with this is what you go on to say yourself:

    ...I guess it's a case of identifying that as your core self.
    It's not a matter of an INT not identifying on some level with Two behaviors (I have some of them honestly). It's a matter of how likely it is to be the "best fit" out of all the archetypes available, and I think the odds of that are pretty slim. We can be Two-ish... but there's more chance to be something else (1, 4,5,6,or 9, typical for INTx, I think.)
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  4. #14
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think my issue with this is what you go on to say yourself:

    It's not a matter of an INT not identifying on some level with Two behaviors (I have some of them honestly). It's a matter of how likely it is to be the "best fit" out of all the archetypes available, and I think the odds of that are pretty slim. We can be Two-ish... but there's more chance to be something else (1, 4,5,6,or 9, typical for INTx, I think.)
    You've got a point, that does make sense.

  5. #15
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    That's because the whole theory is based on specific interconnections, including the directions of (dis)integration. The archetypes are placed in sequence based on these supposed connections.

    As a language issue, it doesn't make sense to call something a "wing" if it's not on the right or left of the Type in question; the term "wing" implies adjacent.

    I didn't need the definition of "wing" :rolli:, and no, it doesn't necessarily imply that something started as adjacent.
    .
    You can call something a wing if you place it next to yourself, because then it would be adjacent.

    Apparently, in this situation you cannot place anything just anywhere.
    I'm not that familiar with enneagrams, which is why I asked.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  6. #16
    Senior Member TenebrousReflection's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    That's because the whole theory is based on specific interconnections, including the directions of (dis)integration. The archetypes are placed in sequence based on these supposed connections.

    As a language issue, it doesn't make sense to call something a "wing" if it's not on the right or left of the Type in question; the term "wing" implies adjacent.

    as far as the OP, why not explain more of your reasoning, TR? I'd love to see a Two NT, but I sincerely doubt it will happen except in the case of an NT mother in a western culture, where she's been forced to play the Two role.
    When reading the description of twos, one of the things that crossed my mind was that I tend to be more motivated and energized when I am doing something for someone else than when I am when I'm doing things for just myself, and that seemed enough to give consideration to the possibility that I could be a two.

    Where the NT part of this comes in is that when I look at my early childhood (0-13), I think I was more of an INT than an INF. One of the things I often get hung up on when re-evaluating myself is that I believe that MBTI represents the core of ones being and at an early age I did not seem like much of an NF, but the answer I always give myself is that circumstances were not conducive to developing as an normal INF, so I developed the parts of myself (logic, and imagination mostly) that I could without drawing too much unwanted attention to myself, but I was at the core an NF but of course had minimal comprehension of such things and only through circumstances later in life was the NF side of me awoken and accepted (I still don't feel completely comfortable showing my NF side in public tho). Now the alternate theory I'm considering (as far fetched as it may seem) is that I may be an INTx Enneagram 2, but life circumstances caused me to focus my thoughts on my feelings to the point that I developed a level of Fi that would be uncharacteristic of an INTx. The more plausible theory is that I'm correct in my NF self typng and I'm a 5w4 or a 4 with a strong 5 wing (which would eb a lot more common than the INTx E2 theory, but I still wanted to explore that theory and get views from others on it before dismissing it).

    To extend the idea and get back on topic, I think at least some psychologists and counselors may be driven by the Enneagram 2 desire to help others but at their core be an INTx that combines their logical and analytical thinking preference with a desire to help others.

    Depending on my mood I can feel like either a NF or an NT, but I think there is more evidence to support the theory that I am at my core an INFP that did not develop naturally and I'm still trying to understand my true self and potential and accept the feeling side of myself (I do believe I've made a lot of progress there in the last few years, but sometimes I don't see myself as a true NF and wonder if I'll ever be truly comfortable in that role). I see myself as an NF internally, but to the world I think I still feel more comfortable wearing an NT mask (its a natural enough fit that I seldom think about it, but I know deep down I'm only showing others what I want to let them see - my inquisitive, logical and analytical side (all truths, but only a part of the whole)).

    I didn't need the definition of "wing" , and no, it doesn't necessarily imply that something started as adjacent.
    .
    You can call something a wing if you place it next to yourself, because then it would be adjacent.

    Apparently, in this situation you cannot place anything just anywhere.
    I'm not that familiar with enneagrams, which is why I asked.
    The Enneagram is arranged in a cricle. Imagine a clock that only has 9 numbers (equaly spaced apart) and you have a good picture of it. The types are linked through both adjacent commonalities and through lines across the circle that represent possible/probable transitions through health/growth or reaction to stress. The theory of the wing, is that it represents things that can be tied to the adjacent type through either being the same type of core (insticnt, feeling or thinking), or by behaviour.

    4 and 5 both represent withdrawn types for example even though 4s represent feeling and 5s thinking. 4 and 3 have feeling in common but 3s are not withdrawn. Hope that makes some sense...
    (keys2cognition) Fi (47.6), Ne (36.8), Fe (36.8), Si (31.6), Ti (29.7), Ni (27.4), Te (17.2) Se (12.5) - subject to change - last updated 11JAN2012
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  7. #17
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    As "?" pointed out in a thread about SPs and enneagram, it seems pretty unlikely for an SP to be type 1.
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    That's because the whole theory is based on specific interconnections, including the directions of (dis)integration. The archetypes are placed in sequence based on these supposed connections.

    As a language issue, it doesn't make sense to call something a "wing" if it's not on the right or left of the Type in question; the term "wing" implies adjacent.

    as far as the OP, why not explain more of your reasoning, TR? I'd love to see a Two NT, but I sincerely doubt it will happen except in the case of an NT mother in a western culture, where she's been forced to play the Two role.
    However, an NT would rather die (at least I would) than fake my identity for any length of time. Also, the enneagram measures your deep nature. That's why I almost am a 4, although I'm a 5. I score 60% congruency with 4 and 80% congruency with 5.

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