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  1. #21

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    Within ENFPs there seems to be an enneagram dependence. Like we cognitively work similar but different enneagram seems to move the conversation in slightly different directions.

    I find enneagram quite useful too. It describes my behaviour when I fall off the wagon quite well, and gives how to get back on. Being a 4w5 I seem to fall off the 5 wagon easier, which I've heard one or two others say also. Maybe the 4 is stronger, so the lessons of how to stay in the good half of it are learnt earlier.

    I sometimes think of use of cognitive functions as what I was thrown genetically, and enneagram as a description of where my environment got me to go. The latter says more about goals than how I perceive things. As a 4w5 life is mining for knowledge and understanding of self and the world. To stop completely and just accept it is fatal, even if you know too much already. As an ENFP it makes me more inclined to seek understanding at any cost and fall into some of the bad ENFP traps. Like sometimes I undermine an opportunity because I see more to learn in failing than winning. 4 seems to be a romantic idealist only in the sense that the simple without that connection and learning will never be enough.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Jeremy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    You might Think that but I couldn't possibly comment.

    Please elaborate.

    Or, in layman's terms, "wat"
    "Can you set me free from this dark inner world? Save me now, last beats in the soul.."

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  3. #23
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    I think it is possible to be almost any combination of Enneatype and MBTI type, mostly because they are in different realms. Type 9 especially; the motivations of type 9 can apply to nearly any type. People with feeling preferences may want "Peace" because conflict upsets them. People with Thinking preferences may want "Peace" because conflict distracts them or otherwise seems illogical.
    That's what makes it seem useless to me. It's more like horoscopes.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    That's what makes it seem useless to me. It's more like horoscopes.
    In terms of its descriptive capacity, you're very right. In fact, I immediately saw similarities in the descriptions themselves between enneagram, astology, and very much numerology. At least enneagram isn't decided by the planets/stars or random numbers I guess. It is determined through an assessment of your personality traits and associated with one of the 9 patterns.

  5. #25
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    I think it's expected that MBTI doesn't correlate exactly with Enneagram--that is, that an MBTI type can be any of a number of Enneagram types--because they try to explain different aspects of cognition and personality as others here have said.

    What use would Enneagram be if its descriptions corresponded directly to certain MBTI types? Those descriptions may as well just be folded into the MBTI in that case.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Erudur's Avatar
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    I don't see a discernible patter with enneagram, and don't find any one of the archetypes fit me very well. The testing shows the same scatter. I don't have any really low scores or any really high scores -- two are kinda high, three are medium high, two are lowish, and two are low. Presumably, if this kind of outcome applies to a significant portion of the population, the model is flawed.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erudur View Post
    I don't see a discernible patter with enneagram, and don't find any one of the archetypes fit me very well. The testing shows the same scatter. I don't have any really low scores or any really high scores -- two are kinda high, three are medium high, two are lowish, and two are low. Presumably, if this kind of outcome applies to a significant portion of the population, the model is flawed.
    I found this the first time, but it was due to the wording and interpretations of questions. Do a variety of the and you will move toward a type. They are quite clear normally once you see yourself more and are honest with yourself on the test.

    There is a chance you are just scattered, though I know it is common for first few times people take the tests.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  8. #28
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Yeah, I just don't get it.

  9. #29
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    the enneagram is used much more in the middle eastern part of the world (relative to the usa) for personality typing.

    that being said, i think it is a good compliment to MBTI but i think biotemperament tells quite a bit more.
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

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  10. #30
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
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    My counselor friends who use MBTI/Enneagram together say

    • MBTI captures normal strengths while Enneagram captures coping mechanisms--what you do when you're masking/protecting yourself
    • There are no good Enneagram assessments as they all pick up "MBTI" noise. Helen Palmer whose books jumpstarted current Enneagram use claimed that you needed to attend workshops and hear people of all 9 types present, ask questions, and use that info to find your Enneagram type
    • If a person begins to recognize when they're relying on Enneagram coping mechanisms rather than leading from their personality they can begin to escape self-defeating patterns
    • Any MBTI type can be any Enneagram type, but they reinforce/contradict in varying magnitudes. Sometimes they're like type/shadow partners and sometimes the enneagram is very similar to type.
    • Another way to look at Enneagram is the biggest trap you fall into.


    I'm E7, which is a lot like ESTP, my "shadow" type. How can playfulness and overwhelming optimism be a bad thing? When it keeps you from taking needed action. Like..."My kid's just immature. Surely nothing REALLY bad can be going on..." or "I'm sure that pain in my side will just go away...why see a doctor..." or "No need to rehash what happened, I'll just find better ways next time..." And so on. It's almost easy to see when the trap is kicking in. For ISTJs, though, for example, who have a perfectionist Enneagram type (I think that's 3's???) it can be way harder to see what is going on...

    So these counselors aren't picking either MBTI or Enneagram but taking a both/and approach
    edcoaching

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