• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Enneagram's worth

BlueScreen

Fail 2.0
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
2,668
MBTI Type
YMCA
Within ENFPs there seems to be an enneagram dependence. Like we cognitively work similar but different enneagram seems to move the conversation in slightly different directions.

I find enneagram quite useful too. It describes my behaviour when I fall off the wagon quite well, and gives how to get back on. Being a 4w5 I seem to fall off the 5 wagon easier, which I've heard one or two others say also. Maybe the 4 is stronger, so the lessons of how to stay in the good half of it are learnt earlier.

I sometimes think of use of cognitive functions as what I was thrown genetically, and enneagram as a description of where my environment got me to go. The latter says more about goals than how I perceive things. As a 4w5 life is mining for knowledge and understanding of self and the world. To stop completely and just accept it is fatal, even if you know too much already. As an ENFP it makes me more inclined to seek understanding at any cost and fall into some of the bad ENFP traps. Like sometimes I undermine an opportunity because I see more to learn in failing than winning. 4 seems to be a romantic idealist only in the sense that the simple without that connection and learning will never be enough.
 

Jeffster

veteran attention whore
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
6,743
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx
I think it is possible to be almost any combination of Enneatype and MBTI type, mostly because they are in different realms. Type 9 especially; the motivations of type 9 can apply to nearly any type. People with feeling preferences may want "Peace" because conflict upsets them. People with Thinking preferences may want "Peace" because conflict distracts them or otherwise seems illogical.

That's what makes it seem useless to me. It's more like horoscopes.
 

Risen

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
3,185
MBTI Type
ISTP
Enneagram
9w8
That's what makes it seem useless to me. It's more like horoscopes.

In terms of its descriptive capacity, you're very right. In fact, I immediately saw similarities in the descriptions themselves between enneagram, astology, and very much numerology. At least enneagram isn't decided by the planets/stars or random numbers I guess. It is determined through an assessment of your personality traits and associated with one of the 9 patterns.
 
G

garbage

Guest
I think it's expected that MBTI doesn't correlate exactly with Enneagram--that is, that an MBTI type can be any of a number of Enneagram types--because they try to explain different aspects of cognition and personality as others here have said.

What use would Enneagram be if its descriptions corresponded directly to certain MBTI types? Those descriptions may as well just be folded into the MBTI in that case.
 

Erudur

New member
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
190
MBTI Type
INTJ
I don't see a discernible patter with enneagram, and don't find any one of the archetypes fit me very well. The testing shows the same scatter. I don't have any really low scores or any really high scores -- two are kinda high, three are medium high, two are lowish, and two are low. Presumably, if this kind of outcome applies to a significant portion of the population, the model is flawed.
 

BlueScreen

Fail 2.0
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
2,668
MBTI Type
YMCA
I don't see a discernible patter with enneagram, and don't find any one of the archetypes fit me very well. The testing shows the same scatter. I don't have any really low scores or any really high scores -- two are kinda high, three are medium high, two are lowish, and two are low. Presumably, if this kind of outcome applies to a significant portion of the population, the model is flawed.

I found this the first time, but it was due to the wording and interpretations of questions. Do a variety of the and you will move toward a type. They are quite clear normally once you see yourself more and are honest with yourself on the test.

There is a chance you are just scattered, though I know it is common for first few times people take the tests.
 

mlittrell

New member
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
1,387
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
9w1
the enneagram is used much more in the middle eastern part of the world (relative to the usa) for personality typing.

that being said, i think it is a good compliment to MBTI but i think biotemperament tells quite a bit more.
 

edcoaching

New member
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
752
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
7
My counselor friends who use MBTI/Enneagram together say

  • MBTI captures normal strengths while Enneagram captures coping mechanisms--what you do when you're masking/protecting yourself
  • There are no good Enneagram assessments as they all pick up "MBTI" noise. Helen Palmer whose books jumpstarted current Enneagram use claimed that you needed to attend workshops and hear people of all 9 types present, ask questions, and use that info to find your Enneagram type
  • If a person begins to recognize when they're relying on Enneagram coping mechanisms rather than leading from their personality they can begin to escape self-defeating patterns
  • Any MBTI type can be any Enneagram type, but they reinforce/contradict in varying magnitudes. Sometimes they're like type/shadow partners and sometimes the enneagram is very similar to type.
  • Another way to look at Enneagram is the biggest trap you fall into.

I'm E7, which is a lot like ESTP, my "shadow" type. How can playfulness and overwhelming optimism be a bad thing? When it keeps you from taking needed action. Like..."My kid's just immature. Surely nothing REALLY bad can be going on..." or "I'm sure that pain in my side will just go away...why see a doctor..." or "No need to rehash what happened, I'll just find better ways next time..." And so on. It's almost easy to see when the trap is kicking in. For ISTJs, though, for example, who have a perfectionist Enneagram type (I think that's 3's???) it can be way harder to see what is going on...

So these counselors aren't picking either MBTI or Enneagram but taking a both/and approach
 

Venom

Babylon Candle
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
2,126
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
E what they are coping for typical
8 Inferior introverted feeling E(N/S)TJ
2 Inferior introverted thinking E(N/S)FJ
3 Inferior introverted intuition ES(T/F)P
7 Inferior introverted sensing EN(T/F)P
5 Inferior extraverted feeling I(N/S)TP
9 Inferior extraverted thinking I(N/S)FP
6 Inferior extraverted intuition IS(T/F)J
4 Inferior extraverted sensing IN(T/F)J

this is the best equation i've ever seen. So while most ENXPs will be type 7 due to inferior Si, they could easily be type 4 (inferior Se) due to being similar weakness. An ESTP could be type 3 (Fe), but also type 8 ESTPs arent that uncommon due to inferior Fi also being somewhat common for ESTPs... it also lets you see that some E types make no fucking sense. type 8 ENFP? so they are basically Ne-Te in everyday life? (i would venture that many type 8 ENFPs are actaully highly creative ENTJs...)
 

Erudur

New member
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
190
MBTI Type
INTJ
I found this the first time, but it was due to the wording and interpretations of questions. Do a variety of the and you will move toward a type. They are quite clear normally once you see yourself more and are honest with yourself on the test.

There is a chance you are just scattered, though I know it is common for first few times people take the tests.

I am pretty self-aware, and have strongly identified with another archetypal system that has 7 types. It has rough parallels as follows:

1 - reformer/4 - individualist -- prophet
2 - helper -- servant
3 - achiever/8 - challenger -- ruler
5 - investigator -- teacher
6 - loyalist -- giver
7 - enthusiast -- exhorter
9 - peacemaker -- mercy

The most difficult type to identify in this system is the giver because they often look much like one of the others. A key motivation for this type is return on investment, independence, and providing for one's own security. When healthy, these types can be very magnanimous and a great benefactor to society.

Using this other breakdown as a comparison, and my own lack of identification with any one of the types, I tend to believe that enneagram has missed an archetype -- one that is often enough covered by the others that it is hardly missed.
 
G

garbage

Guest
E what they are coping for typical
8 Inferior introverted feeling E(N/S)TJ
2 Inferior introverted thinking E(N/S)FJ
3 Inferior introverted intuition ES(T/F)P
7 Inferior introverted sensing EN(T/F)P
5 Inferior extraverted feeling I(N/S)TP
9 Inferior extraverted thinking I(N/S)FP
6 Inferior extraverted intuition IS(T/F)J
4 Inferior extraverted sensing IN(T/F)J

I can see how a lack of attention to Se could contribute to a strong identification with Enneagram 4, manifested in a nonstop search for identity with little focus on the qualities of the present. The others seem to make some sense, too.

There's more information on this concept here.. it's an interesting read.
 

Venom

Babylon Candle
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
2,126
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I can see how a lack of attention to Se could contribute to a strong identification with Enneagram 4, manifested in a nonstop search for identity with little focus on the qualities of the present. The others seem to make some sense, too.

There's more information on this concept here.. it's an interesting read.

i know there are a lot of ENTJs who say they are E 3... but honestly, having an E type to cope for the weakness of your AUXILLARY?! makes no sense to me... what does make sense to me is the fact that E 3 is the 'typical' ESTP, and a lot of ENTJs are confused for ESTP... :whistling:
 
G

garbage

Guest
Yeah, there's no way that I'm ESTP.

Since ENTJs have a lot in common with ESTPs, it would make sense that there's some crossover between them when it comes to correlations with other models such as the Enneagram.

That table is just one way to explain how Enneagram types come about in individuals. A lack of Ni might not be the only cause for someone identifying with Enneagram 3. Enneagram also takes into account factors such as development during childhood, whereas MBTI takes one's base personality as a given effectively from birth.

It's true that that table makes sense and is an interesting read, but it doesn't mean that there aren't exceptions out there. It's more likely that exceptions exist than that the table's infallible.
 

Metamorphosis

New member
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
3,474
MBTI Type
INTJ
It certainly adds something that's missing from Socionics and MBTI. Frankly, it's best to just use all three systems and compile what's relevant to create a more whole picture.

Basically my exact thoughts.
 

Venom

Babylon Candle
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
2,126
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Yeah, there's no way that I'm ESTP.

Since ENTJs have a lot in common with ESTPs, it would make sense that there's some crossover between them when it comes to correlations with other models such as the Enneagram.

That table is just one way to explain how Enneagram types come about in individuals. A lack of Ni might not be the only cause for someone identifying with Enneagram 3. Enneagram also takes into account factors such as development during childhood, whereas MBTI takes one's base personality as a given effectively from birth.

It's true that that table makes sense and is an interesting read, but it doesn't mean that there aren't exceptions out there. It's more likely that exceptions exist than that the table's infallible.

oh im fully aware that the table is not infallible and that there are exceptions. i dont think ESTPs have to be E3 and i dont think ENTJs have to be E8 either.

my only point is that some exceptions make more sense than others:
ex: E7 for ENFP (inferior Si)...could pretty easily work as an E4 (inferior Se) because Se/Si = its a weakness to sense things as they actually are.

i think an E8 ESTP (tertiary Fe...could be kinda like having weak F...aka inferior Fi) makes more sense than an E3 ENTJ. These are just my musings however, and im fully aware that many actual ENTJs pick E3...
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Enneagram is good used with MBTI, it really pinpoints how people are. I think I'm a bit of a freak, 8w9 INFP. You never hear of that one much do you?
 

Mitzy

brat
Joined
Oct 2, 2008
Messages
687
MBTI Type
ENTP
idk...i took two tests and got two different things


Type 1: 5 /// Type 1: 2
Type 2: -4 /// Type 2: 2
Type 3: -2 /// Type 3: 6
Type 4: 2 /// Type 4: 5
Type 5: 6 /// Type 5: 5
Type 6: -6 /// Type 6: 4
Type 7: 3 /// Type 7: 4
Type 8: -4 /// Type 8: 6
Type 9: 0 /// Type 9: 2


what the deuce?
 
Top