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  1. #11
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    It's a really great description. I actually identify with a lot of what you highlighted. Except I disagree in a sideways way with the whole turmoil bragging, and very literal death centered motivation explanations. I think they're only slightly off the mark because it's practically unquestioned when 'death' is substituted for 'fear'.

    I see and am proud of my capacity for bearing turmoil, because it affirms my ability to take on whatever needs to be done and to survive it, not because it makes me better than the plebs. And it's only a death rehearsal if your greatest fear is death, my fears are more mundane.

    I may have developed slightly different than other 4s, though... making me even more special.
    I think "death" is more about fearing stillness & its associated mediocrity, and fearing not fulfilling one's potential due to being finite & not having had the time/opportunity (wasting one's life on ordinariness). I don't think its a physical fear of the death experience.

    The "death rehearsal" thing is familiar to me. It's a withdrawing and numbing out, even as I crave more passion & excitement in life, because I feel sort of fated to "life passing me by" and succumbing to total obscurity. I may reduce myself to the bare minimum - eat as little as needed to stave off hunger, sleep a lot or very little & without regularity, mope around in PJs and don't shower, do almost nothing but fantasize and think...and in a rough period I could do that for days on end, weeks even. But the other side of sp is to be resilient, to suddenly conquer that "death" and move into action again, which can be destructive if you're impulsively grabbing at things to induce change & its associated excitement.

    I don't brag about inner turmoil nor feel superior for it, but like many 4s, I may assume I have more of it. Being able to uncover others' inner experience & note similarities with my own has been a comfort; I feel less alien. But then I can feel bad for NOT conquering the turmoil they seem to have also & functioning in spite of, so I think I go back to convincing myself I have more of it :P.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  2. #12
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I think "death" is more about fearing stillness & its associated mediocrity, and fearing not fulfilling one's potential due to being finite & not having had the time/opportunity (wasting one's life on ordinariness). I don't think its a physical fear of the death experience.

    The "death rehearsal" thing is familiar to me. It's a withdrawing and numbing out, even as I crave more passion & excitement in life, because I feel sort of fated to "life passing me by" and succumbing to total obscurity. I may reduce myself to the bare minimum - eat as little as needed to stave off hunger, sleep a lot or very little & without regularity, mope around in PJs and don't shower, do almost nothing but fantasize and think...and in a rough period I could do that for days on end, weeks even. But the other side of sp is to be resilient, to suddenly conquer that "death" and move into action again, which can be destructive if you're impulsively grabbing at things to induce change & its associated excitement.

    I don't brag about inner turmoil nor feel superior for it, but like many 4s, I may assume I have more of it. Being able to uncover others' inner experience & note similarities with my own has been a comfort; I feel less alien. But then I can feel bad for NOT conquering the turmoil they seem to have also & functioning in spite of, so I think I go back to convincing myself I have more of it :P.
    Ah, I'm not sure if I've always felt this way, but I've always fought for some sort of transcendence through achieving meaning, which I suppose is an escape from death if death is some sort of archetypical stillness, like entropy. Intellectually I see myself as fighting off entropy with the battle itself being transcending in the face of inevitable defeat. I know it sounds very grandiose, but this is my heroic journey in the act of getting out of bed.

    I don't identify with the "death rehearsal" at all, but I have a feeling that the death rehearsal is tied to what your conception of meaningless is. Mine is a more active meaninglessness, and in that case my death rehearsal is a willing decent into nonsense, things that exist but have no place, a kind of minor insanity. I bounce back, like you do and am renewed.

    I wonder if this is an analog to your death rehearsal, and if so are the differences due to a cosmology, or I/E?

  3. #13
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Ah, I'm not sure if I've always felt this way, but I've always fought for some sort of transcendence through achieving meaning, which I suppose is an escape from death if death is some sort of archetypical stillness, like entropy. Intellectually I see myself as fighting off entropy with the battle itself being transcending in the face of inevitable defeat. I know it sounds very grandiose, but this is my heroic journey in the act of getting out of bed.

    I don't identify with the "death rehearsal" at all, but I have a feeling that the death rehearsal is tied to what your conception of meaningless is. Mine is a more active meaninglessness, and in that case my death rehearsal is a willing decent into nonsense, things that exist but have no place, a kind of minor insanity. I bounce back, like you do and am renewed.

    I wonder if this is an analog to your death rehearsal, and if so are the differences due to a cosmology, or I/E?
    I think the introversion/extroversion difference makes sense here, yeah. I withdraw into the Fi cocoon & you get caught up in Ne nonsense.

    Plus insert obligatory "everyone is an individual" comment :P.

    And "the heroic joinery in the act of getting out of bead" - ha! Isn't that what it feels like :X
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  4. #14
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I think the introversion/extroversion difference makes sense here, yeah. I withdraw into the Fi cocoon & you get caught up in Ne nonsense.

    Plus insert obligatory "everyone is an individual" comment :P.

    And "the heroic joinery in the act of getting out of bead" - ha! Isn't that what it feels like :X
    Hah, I just caught that... bedazzlingly disjointed.

  5. #15
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    They still all sound like me.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green
    Likes ImaFour liked this post

  6. #16

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    This is quite complicated thing for me to pick.. I feel like mostly relating to all of the descriptions. Perhaps so/sp or so/sx fits best, but it's really difficult to tell based on these characteristics.
    Rock'n'roll heart, rock'n'roll soul

  7. #17
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    If you want to listen to enneagram 4 music, I suggest you listen to ice earth fourth album dark saga
    In order for society to survive, we must all pitch in and cooperate with one another, split the resources fairly.
    If we get greedy, everything will fall apart
    The main reason why there is no long peace is because everything is set and stone.
    Another is that resources are limited and the ones who had the most goes bad because they are in control.

  8. #18
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    Their strong self-pres instinct also lends a degree of independence to this subtype. As the sexual instinct is least pronounced, this subtype of Four is prone to romanticize intimacy without actually pursuing real relationships. When healthy, these Fours can be very productive; when less healthy they might suffer from boughts of melancholy or self pity. The strong self-pres instinct however often helps these individuals to recognize how their state of mind is impacting their health and well being. This enables them to become action oriented.

    This is me to a T.
    794 Ennegram (7w6, 9w8, 4w5)

    Head triad - 7 > 6 > 5
    Body triad - 9 > 8 > 1
    Heart triad - 4 > 2 > 3

    Core type -> 6 wing: 75%. 8 wing: 25%.
    Second type -> 8 wing: 54%. 1 wing: 46%.
    Third type -> 5 wing: 68%. 3 wing: 32%.

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