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Poll: What Personality Type is Emmanuel Macron?

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Thread: Emmanuel Macron

  1. #11
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    He's a very quiet, focused and mild-mannered man. The opposite of Mélenchon (= unsufferable demagogue who insults half of his staff every 15 minutes; I tried to work for him in 2012, it was a disaster).

    What you described is his "impersonal mode" during his public speeches. When he tries to communicate with a large crowd, he tries to simplify to the extreme a very complex pattern of thoughts, quotes and metaphors, hence his apparent clumsiness. Have you ever tried to popularize Habermas dialectics, my dear Eck ? For instance, to fully understand what he really means by "en même temps" (= in the same time), you should have read John Rawls and Ricoeur.

    However, when he addresses an individual, suddenly the full complexity reappears. He's a really talented intellectual... but like Red Herring once wrote, unfortunately there's a lot of prejudice and lack of understanding against intellectuals nowadays. So he has to hide it, to conceal it, unless he is interviewed, for instance, by France Culture or another fellow intellectual. Enthoven was, for instance, very impressed (-> Twitter "Whether you like him or not, a minister who quotes Hegel and Jaurès in less than three minutes deserves to be listened" ). "Affirmer la liberté, c'est prendre sur soi l'origine du mal"... is a far more complex sentence than "violence is bad", don't you agree ?

    That's why I would not say he's an extrovert, because clearly communicating with crowds is not his "thing". He's not a demagogue, plus he hates lies, a very unusual trait for a politician (that's precisely why he's a kind of alien being in this milieu). However, the way he fully dominated Le Pen during the debate, to the point of ridiculing her, shows how powerful he can be face to face.

    And apparently, according to his staff, he needs time to be alone before a stressful event, even it's only five minutes sometimes.
    I mean you clearly have some fandom hard on on the guy. Fine. But having read some books and quoting stuff doesn't make one brilliant. It's usually the opposite in my experience. I've met enough pseudo intellectuals to know that the more foolish they are the more they quote and use some long dead guy's obsolete ideas. I've been raised around the Parisian elite, and I know how French "Intellectuals" work. It's an insulary self congratulating subculture I would have fun debate-shaming in 60 seconds or less as a teenager. My godfather is someone I consider to be half retarded and he can quote whole poems he's learned 50 years ago by heart, was a Parisian district major in the 80ies + was a 'député,, was as star pupil at Science-Po etc.

    What did Macron accomplish as a left-wing finance minister? If he's so competent you'd have expected some miracle to happen right? Secondly, there's a reason why so few proeminant economists are left-wing. Because left-wing economics don't work.

    Lastly, he's changed opinions as often as the opinion polls changed, anyone acting this way in general is NOT honest, and CANNOT be trusted to defend your interests. Case in point he's on record for having defrauded the government by undervaluing his properties as to pay less taxes AS A FINANCE MINISTER. In a sane world that should have been the death of his political career. The man's a fraud and It's just power for the sake of power. I'd rather have an honest asshole than a two-faced opinion poll thermometer à la Hillary. The French people made the stupid choice of voting for Hollande and now they'll make the stupid choice of following some Justin Trudeau cum Obama wannabe while nothing changes in the public discourse. A man who - i'll remind you - publicly called Le Pen supporters 'hateful cowards' only days ago - that's 40 fucking percent of the country he insulted. That to me is not a leader but an elistist scumbag.

    Macron, or as I like to call him - Macaron-'s program is just an accumulation of the same things France's been doing for decades repackaged as new ideas (let's promote education, totally new idea in France right?), green economic policies which have utterly failed throughout the world oh and lets hire more public workers so we can pretend unemployment went down etc.

    While I can understand some people are naive, I don't think anyone with an actual economics degree has an excuse not to see through this wall of bullshit. So maybe that's why you don't see it, I wouldn't know.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Macron on the other hand, is pro-businesses, pro-EU, and even urged American scientists, academics, and entrepreneurs, who feel uneasy about President Donald Trump's administration, to move to France.
    Sounds like something I would do. *laughs*
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  3. #13
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    His idea that terror attacks will be part of daily life will reduce his popularity. Le Pen has issues, but with problems like France has right now, I think people there will go for her. She at least is alright on climate change...not that it matters much since we will probably extinct ourselves at this rate. A hollow victory, I suppose, is that when humans kill themselves off, life on earth will begin to heal before the sun explodes and kills that life, too. Humans, with pur advanced technology, are the best hope we have of keeping life going after our planet is consumed by the sun.
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    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    I mean you clearly have some fandom hard on on the guy. Fine. But having read some books and quoting stuff doesn't make one brilliant. It's usually the opposite in my experience. I've met enough pseudo intellectuals to know that the more foolish they are the more they quote and use some long dead guy's obsolete ideas. I've been raised around the Parisian elite, and I know how French "Intellectuals" work. It's an insulary self congratulating subculture I would have fun debate-shaming in 60 seconds or less as a teenager. My godfather is someone I consider to be half retarded and he can quote whole poems he's learned 50 years ago by heart, was a Parisian district major in the 80ies + was a 'député,, was as star pupil at Science-Po etc.
    That's anti-intellectualism at its best. You seem to have failed to succeed or understand that system, and thus you hate it.
    Failure and rejection often lead to jealousy, frustration and hate.

    It's like Muslims and Arabs: you hate them. No need to guess who you're trying to defend.

    While I can understand some people are naive, I don't think anyone with an actual economics degree has an excuse not to see through this wall of bullshit. So maybe that's why you don't see it, I wouldn't know.


    You really think Le Pen has a better knowledge of economics than Macron ?

    Are you serious ?

    Did we watch the same debate last wednesday ?
    Last edited by Blackmail!; 05-07-2017 at 09:40 AM.
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  6. #16
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    That's anti-intellectualism at its best. You seem to have failed to succeed or understand that system, and thus you hate it.
    Failure and rejection often lead to jealousy, frustration and hate.

    It's like Muslims and Arabs: you hate them. No need to guess who you're trying to defend.





    You really think Le Pen has a better knowledge of economics than Macron ?

    Are you serious ?

    Did we watch the same debate last wednesday ?
    None of what you said are arguments, you made an assumption about my personality or career that is utterly baseless. It is unlikely that you have accomplished more than I did by age 30 - but if you have well, good for you. Secondly if intellectuals define themselves via intellect, then I'm more of an intellectual than most of them. ie: because I am objectively more intelligent than 99.96% of the French population. So what's your point? Are we to compare dicks now? Or can we have talk like adults ?

    I think it's possible that your assessment of Macron has more to do with the Dunning-Krugger effect than anything else. Or are you going to tell me you're an economics major and/or worked as an entrepreneur and that this knowledge and experience is informing your opinion of Macron. Is that the case? What is your field of expertise? Is it philosophy like Macron. Ie: a hobby rather than a job ?

    You have not addressed any of my actual arguments. You're just acting like a 'true believer' which is certainly not the sign of a skeptical and yes, intellectual mindset. Hence my point about most self proclaimed French intellectuals being just another sub culture rather than actual smart people. Dogmatism is not a sign of intelligence, you know, and you certainly present yourself as dogmatic.

    Lastly, of course I'm more competent regarding economics than Macron, be it only because - contrarily to him - I have actually studied economics for about 8 years in addition to years of studying economics as a hobby on the side and years of entrepreneurship while Macron was being some writer's assistant and writing about his favorite philosophers. A hobby I share with him however not to the point of mistaking it for a workplace skill, which it isn't.
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  7. #17
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    None of what you said are arguments, you made an assumption about my personality or career that is utterly baseless. It is unlikely that you have accomplished more than I did by age 30 - but if you have well, good for you. Secondly if intellectuals define themselves via intellect, then I'm more of an intellectual than most of them. ie: because I am objectively more intelligent than 99.96% of the French population. So what's your point? Are we to compare dicks now? Or can we have talk like adults ?
    My dear Eck


    I know we French are often perceived as "arrogant", but I wasn't aware you had such a serious self-confidence issue.
    I still hope, nonetheless, that what you wrote here was just an attempt at second degree humor and self-derision. If that is so, then we should check Poe's law. (Poe's law - Wikipedia ).

    Once again, if you want to understand how Macron manages to solve the apparent dualism and contradiction of his positions, then I recommend you should immediately start studying dialectics.

    Anyway... If you think you're so gifted with economics, then I recommend you should try to improve Le Pen's program, because apparently, your far right friends severely lack your incredible genius. They should really benefit from a person like you, if they haven't already hired you.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    I watched the entire debate last night on CSPAN. "Parasite." More than 12 hours later and I'm still laughing.
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  9. #19
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    I watched the entire debate last night on CSPAN. "Parasite." More than 12 hours later and I'm still laughing.
    So do I. Macron behaved admirably in front of this harpy that relentlessy kept insulting him again, and again, and again rather than comparing their programs and intentions.

    My father wrote a good article in "Le Monde" where he mentions this one-sided debate, where everybody eventually had the possibility to see what a far right Leader really looks like.
    Apparently, Le Pen lost a lot of votes because of her despicable attitude, that horrified many people who first intented to simply abstain.

    The presidential election is almost over right now. I know the French law forbids me to tell you who the clear winner is... but it's not difficult to guess.
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  10. #20
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    My dear Eck I know we French are often perceived as "arrogant", but I wasn't aware you had such a serious self-confidence issue. I still hope, nonetheless, that what you wrote here was just an attempt at second degree humor and self-derision. If that is so, then we should check Poe's law. (Poe's law - Wikipedia ). Once again, if you want to understand how Macron manages to solve the apparent dualism and contradiction of his positions, then I recommend you should immediately start studying dialectics. Anyway... If you think you're so gifted with economics, then I recommend you should try to improve Le Pen's program, because apparently, your far right friends severely lack your incredible genius. They should really benefit from a person like you, if they haven't already hired you.
    Again, you didn't address any of my point. Start doing that first so maybe people will start taking you seriously.

    Can you please stop the childish antics? I'm having a hard time taking you seriously.


    Just be a man and lose fair and square instead of using the classic coward's out of squirming out and building strawmen

    I'm more than willing to have an actual conversation but so far you are just wasting my time and acting like a clown.

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