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Edward Snowden

What Personality Type is Edward Snowden?

  • ENFP

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  • ENFJ

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  • ENTJ

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  • ISFP

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  • ISFJ

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  • ESFP

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  • ESFJ

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  • ISTP

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  • ESTP

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  • ESTJ

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  • 2w1

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  • 2w3

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  • 3w2

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  • 3w4

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  • 4w3

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  • 4w5

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  • 6w7

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  • 7w6

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  • 8w9

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  • 9w8

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  • Total voters
    25

Salomé

meh
Joined
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Messages
10,527
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
he pulled it off with calm, cool, collected grace. Instead of doing nothing, he did everything.

Despite the confirmation bias involved, I continue to bet ISTP.
We'll let an ISTP play him in the movie, how's that?
 

Salomé

meh
Joined
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Messages
10,527
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We have sleepovers an a'thing.
If that's an example of a plan, then no, he's not. The test of planning is when you make up some new mechanism to deal with something that hasn't happened before. In that sense, a conservative list of recommendations is not a plan.
Ok. It's about as close as I'd ever want to get to a plan, so it's all good.

What think you of Mr Snowden's planning gifts? I see you've stopped arguing for his type and have resorted to denigrating the competition instead.
Smells like defeat...

Have you considered that thing about facts yet? Still haven't seen any TPs address the facts of facts. It's written into typology that you'll have a weird approach to what's "there" - that jolly Si function, which by definition warps immediate perception, making it inaccessible to the perceiver, and presenting them with something that better conforms to past perception....

And Ti itself - it's built in that immediate external distinction is unavailable. To distinguish between two items, you need a principle, not a simple observation, right? And this is especially complicated when the items are not immediately physical. If there's some conceptual or modeled item to distinguish from another, do you rely on principles and definitions or on working backwards from unchanged direct observation that must alter the model before it itself can ever be altered?
I think you might be being over rigid about all this. There's nothing in the Big Red Book of Typology Rules that says Ti- doms must use that function exclusively. We are dealing in preferences here, that's all.

Hands up any Ti-ers who understand typology as a system made up to explain observed differences in cognition. Now, hands up any Ti-ers who understand typology as just another bunch of arbitrary classifications that have little or no basis in science. Which aspect is dominant in your understanding?

Our understanding is more fluid and tentative and responsive and nuanced than you'd likely ever be able to grasp with your blunt hammer of Te, to which everything looks like a nail...
 

Salomé

meh
Joined
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Messages
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The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
 

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
26,562
MBTI Type
INTJ
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6w5
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What type is Ed Snowden?

What type do you think Ed Snowden is?
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
19,455
MBTI Type
INTP
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sp/so
Someone--a few someones--explained, or asserted smugly, that the opinion of the majority here counts for an important piece of evidence in its own right. I offered several reasons why that particular majority not infrequently can't tell a type from their elbow, none of which reasons would matter if any of that majority had addressed type when they identified type.

Careful. This is getting dangerously close to Ti solipsism here. Perhaps you are one of us as well. Arguing against evidence... are you sure you are an INTJ?

You have not demonstrated why your word or opinion on the matter is more trustworthy than that of the majority. You're simply requesting "evidence" without providing "evidence" for your own point of view. And no, this is not an invisible teapot situation.

"what he sounds like when he speaks" is not a smoking gun. What would be relevant proof would be something that could show that he leaned towards a Ni perspective rather than a Ne perspective.

His reluctance to act, does that sound like Ne, or like Ni to you? Does he have Ni certainty, or Ne uncertainty? When did hesitancy and indecision become a hallmark of Ni?

You proved nothing with your confusing exercise of duplicating his speech patterns. I was imitating INTJ argumentation styles earlier in this thread. Did this cause you to conclude that I am an INTJ?

:)

There is no proof for him being INTJ, or INTP for that matter. That's just like uh, your opinion man.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
Joined
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Messages
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You aren't aware enough of how your type functions to be able to tell the difference between your type and another.

Can you? Can you differentiate between Te and Ti, Ne and Ni? Can you articulate those differences, or just "identify" them?

I look forward to reading your explanation of the difference between those four functions.

:)

Whenever your logic is shown to be faulty, you simply cherry pick new "evidence", rather than taking fault with the analysis. It's rather telling.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
Joined
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Messages
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sp/so
I"ll do you one better.

I'll provide one of the dissimilarities you were clamoring for.

INTJs seem to find it very hard to admit when they are wrong, or even when they may be wrong. Nothing in Snowden's statements point to a certainty in correctness, to a belief that he is correct enough to be able to determine whether the NSA is correct or not. He believes that people should be informed so that they can decide. This is one of the things that convinced me. You even allude to this difference between INTJs and INTPs in your penultimate post by criticizing my "failure to conclude."

Of course, I'm sure that now, this will not be good enough.

I can ask you more questions, but you'll just respond with more one word answers and not actually back up your claims that you are someone who '"understands" typology. You didn't do that above, I don't expect you to do that anywhere else. You did not provide an explanation of the four functions that you claimed you understand so well. Why should I believe you, when you seem afraid and reluctant to even attempt this?

Your convictions are not ironclad evidence.

I knew someone who was convinced that a new utopia would emerge in December 2012. This conviction was, obviously, not the same thing as truth.

Start discussing the same things I'm discussing and giving real responses and counter-analysis and perhaps I'll change my mind. I guarantee you that no one will be convinced if you continue to present your feelings dressed up by table scraps of data, and perhaps I'll change my mind.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
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Only INTPs understand democracy?

Quo vadis, Typology?

It's less about understanding democracy, and more about certainty vs. doubt. I'm sure people think I'm overly arrogant and certain about things, but the truth is, I'm not inherently certain of things. At least not until I bring it into the open, and see how other people react to it.

With INTJs, I get the sense that they really are that certain. They actually don't seem to have very much doubt at all. In many ways, that's more useful, as it makes action easier.

I'm arguing less that INTJs are wrong, and more that they tend to be certain about things they might be wrong about.
 

Nicodemus

New member
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Aug 2, 2010
Messages
9,756
It's less about understanding democracy, and more about humility.
Says you. I think it has more to do with being realistic. He would be an idiot to assume he could do any more than inform the public. He can inform in a way that suggests the choice of certain options over others, as he has, but that is where his influence ends or ended at the time of the initial leak. That is not to say that, therefore, he must be an INTJ. It merely erodes this ridiculous premise for the INTP argument.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
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Says you. I think it has more to do with being realistic. He would be an idiot to assume he could do any more than inform the public. He can inform in a way that suggests the choice of certain options over others, as he has, but that is where his influence ends or ended at the time of the initial leak. That is not to say that, therefore, he must be an INTJ. It merely erodes this ridiculous premise for the INTP argument.

I hadn't considered that. What say you to a distinction between INTJs and INTPs being certainty vs. doubt? Humility perhaps is inaccurate, as people, rightly or wrongly, have accused me of arrogance. I edited the post to be about INTP doubt instead of "humility". Where would you say Snowden falls on the certainty vs. doubt spectrum?

As for [MENTION=5731]Kalach[/MENTION], I concede. You win. I suggest you go to the dollar store and buy some confetti. You have won the argument and defeated me.

$%28KGrHqN,!pEFEViW-DwhBRr9rDEQEQ~~60_35.JPG
 

Nicodemus

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9,756
What say you to a distinction between INTJs and INTPs being certainty vs. doubt?
I think the distinction is between the sources or standards of certainty. I tried to illustrate it once in another thread. The difference is made even clearer when you read the INTP's response. Ni, metaphorically speaking, has a hunch whether the pieces fit and is satisfied if they seem to; Ti needs to put the puzzle together (or take it apart again) before it feels justified to say that they do fit.

That is my subjective take on it, based on personal experience. If you want to know the theory truth about it, you have to ask someone who read the books.

Where would you say Snowden falls on the certainty vs. doubt spectrum?
I think Snowden did his research before he waved the flag, but I also think that he had to take a few leaps to be able to paint a whole picture. Taking those leaps is, in my opinion, to judge the light at the end of the tunnel without going all the way through it.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
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sp/so
I think the distinction is between the sources or standards of certainty. I tried to illustrate it once in another thread. The difference is made even clearer when you read the INTP's response. Ni, metaphorically speaking, has a hunch whether the pieces fit and is satisfied if they seem to; Ti needs to put the puzzle together (or take it apart again) before it feels justified to say that they do fit.

True. Ti is dissatisfied with leaps. Ti wants to see the steps. We're like the math teachers always asking you to show your work.



I think Snowden did his research before he waved the flag, but I also think that he had to take a few leaps to be able to paint a whole picture. Taking those leaps is, in my opinion, to judge the light at the end of the tunnel without going all the way through it.

You mean with statements like.... "This has too much potential to be used nefariously. " (Paraphrasing here.)

Hmmm... I just think his hesitation and his reluctance suggest that he isn't prone to taking those leaps. If taking those leaps is natural, as is it would be for someone with dominant intuition, wouldn't he have leaped much earlier? Why did it take him so long?

It's the fact that he almost seemed to notwant to do anything that makes him seem INTP to me. We step in only when it looks like nothing is going to get done if we don't.

This is basically the root of the issue for me.
 
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