User Tag List

Poll: What Personality Type is Edward Snowden?

Be advised that this is a public poll: other users can see the choice(s) you selected.

First 4567816 Last

Results 51 to 60 of 306

Thread: Edward Snowden

  1. #51
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540

    Default

    ZOMG, Kalach, you're obsessed.
    Don't make me watch that video again, because I might fall in love, and if he turns out to be INTJ, I'm going to have to dump a whole bunch of prejudices and get some new ones, and who has time for that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post

    "...they, uh, the NSA specifically, targets the communications of everyone. It ingests them by default. It collects them in its system and it filters them, and it analyses them, and it measures them, and it stores them for periods of time, simply because that's the easiest, most efficient, and most valuable way to achieve these ends."

    [indent]Why does he list those qualities--easiest, most efficient, most valuable? It's hardly efficient, it's not easy, and why is it valuable? But for making NSA lives easier, it is.
    He's presenting the reasons from the perspective of the NSA.
    Duh.
    We can switch perspectives easily without attaching to them. We has flexible Pness.

    "I think that the public is owed an explanation of the motivations behind the people who make these disclosures that are outside of the democratic model."

    What does that even mean, and why is he talking about himself in the plural third person? It's mechanisms again. Not objective people, but objective mechanisms.
    I understand him perfectly. You might think that someone who abuses sentence construction in that way would necessarily be INTJ, but, on this occasion, you'd be wrong.

    "And I'm willing to go on the record to defend the authenticity of them, and say, I didn't change these, I didn't modify the story, this is the truth, this is what's happening, you should decide whether we need to be doing this."
    Snowden isn't saying "this is true because I say it's true" - an appeal to authority. He's saying, "this truth is important enough for me to stick my neck on the line".

    I think you know that really. But this straw-clutching exercise is cute.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #52
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    4,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Right, but he's not saying "he" is an intrinsically important element to the truth, but that coming out with the Truth in the way that he has renders his information less corruptible by the government that wants to simply label him as a traitor as a way to discredit his information. The guy stuck his face on every newspaper and ruined his life so NOBAMA and Pals couldn't just say "disgruntled employee/liar/baby sodomizer;" it's simply context to understand the importance of his information, nothing more. I'm not sure why you think this part is typologically relevant anyways, unless you described it some posts above and I missed it.
    What context? With his face on the revelations, we know they came from some dude who likes grey shirts, had cardboard boxes up on all the windows of his house, and lived with a stripper. And he failed high school. So with that face on the story, no campaign of disinformation can start up? And that's why he ruined his life? Seems like a reach.

    I don't know why he put his own face on this story. My instinct is to say he doesn't think the facts speak for themselves. That, if true, is typologically relevant because it suggests some hidden vision he wants people to see. Furthermore, claiming the revelations to be unaltered works as a first step in extroverted thinking. "I'm honest and truthful, so where do we go from here?"

    Plus, but this is something of a guess, it's a better idea strategically to be a public face. They disappear less easily than anonymous citizens. Such a thought may count as typologically relevant, but even an INTP could be that aware of consequences.

    He's observing the present status quo and taking it to its logical conclusion to a nebulous time "down the road." Ti users do this all time and it's one characteristic that makes them so self defeating.
    He observed a logical conclusion?

    They probably don't find him vague.
    There you go. I used a word, and it was a good word, but what *I* was referring to by it wasn't known, thus the standard definition of that word got used because indeed, he's not vague. He's quite definite in what he says. He explicit. He's clear that some nebulous thing is happening and we have to consider it too. Any INTP that wishes to come forward and claim how often they too rely on ill-formed and vague background entities, feel free.

    How often do INTPs rely on imprecise, mysterious, but known to themselves, vision?
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  3. #53
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    4,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    He's presenting the reasons from the perspective of the NSA.
    From a perspective the NSA could have, but why that one? That's the one they do have? He says so.

    I understand him perfectly. You might think that someone who abuses sentence construction in that way would necessarily be INTJ, but, on this occasion, you'd be wrong.
    "Mean" doesn't mean mean, it means mean. As in, why. Why is the public owed an explanation? What is it about the democratic model that places this obligation on him? He doesn't say. He just states that he thinks this. What is it about democracy that obliges the people who go outside of it to apologise? Because he's breaking the system the people trust or because he's breaking the people's trust?

    Snowden isn't saying "this is true because I say it's true" - an appeal to authority. He's saying, "this truth is important enough for me to stick my neck on the line".
    This truth? Which one? Which damn truth? What truth is he revealing? If someone would actually ascribe to him the truth he is showing, we could get some sense of what typologically he's been doing. I say his truth is a vision that's bigger than the evidence he provides. The evidence sets the scene for understanding the wider implication. The wider implication is more substantial to him than the current abuses. Thus I claim is evidence of a typological profile. What truth do you think he's conveying?

    I think you know that really. But this straw-clutching exercise is cute.
    Please. You haven't done the comprehensive analysis and I haven't publicly convinced people of a vision. Good for P, bad for J.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  4. #54
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Any INTP that wishes to come forward and claim how often they too rely on ill-formed and vague background entities, feel free.
    I honestly think you're losing it. You're so persuaded by your own ill-formed vagaries, that you're convinced he has them too...
    But that isn't evidence that he has. And you haven't provided anything convincing to support your notion of the hidden visions that you imagine animate the man.( Given that they're hidden, I can't blame you for that.)

    The fact that he can imagine a worse-case scenario, doesn't make him Mystic Meg.
    He's a fucking risk analyst, that's his job.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #55
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    From a perspective the NSA could have, but why that one? That's the one they do have? He says so.
    Logic dictates so. It's unlikely that they are actively *trying* to be inefficient.
    Why is the public owed an explanation?
    Because he knows that people care about motives as much as message. (There's that capacity to inhabit multiple perspectives again).
    What is it about the democratic model that places this obligation on him? He doesn't say. He just states that he thinks this. What is it about democracy that obliges the people who go outside of it to apologise? Because he's breaking the system the people trust or because he's breaking the people's trust?
    Because he believes in democracy, the form of government, and presumes other people who imagine themselves to be living in one will too.
    This truth? Which one? Which damn truth? What truth is he revealing? If someone would actually ascribe to him the truth he is showing, we could get some sense of what typologically he's been doing. I say his truth is a vision that's bigger than the evidence he provides. The evidence sets the scene for understanding the wider implication. The wider implication is more substantial to him than the current abuses. Thus I claim is evidence of a typological profile. What truth do you think he's conveying?
    The truth that the NSA treats US citizens like enemies of the state.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #56
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    16,248

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach;2128173, quoting Snowden
    "And I'm willing to go on the record to defend the authenticity of them, and say, I didn't change these, I didn't modify the story, this is the truth, this is what's happening, you should decide whether we need to be doing this."
    The underscored is Ti: the truth is self-evident, and stands on its own, not needing the objective, external proof that Te would require/present. The highlighted is much more Fe than Fi: moral value defined externally; he thinks it breaks the rules, but invites everyone else to weigh in, whereas for Fi, moral value is self-evident, needing no external corroboration. Ergo, INTP.

    Many of Snowden's quotes can be analyzed similarly. Readers can do the math themselves.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #57
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    4,318

    Default

    This is laughable. I've been following the revelations. None of them stand on their own. Even the thousands of documented breaches of privacy laws per year can be written off as accidental. Anyone who believes in the need to secure the nation against terrorism will have little problem with this. Look around and see. So what compelling truth does Snowden signal the existence of? If it's just that the NSA is jogging along nicely without democratic oversight, then why the hell is that compelling? Where is his reasoning? He literally doesn't provide any. Instead, he warns of a compelling possibility, that tyranny is coming.

    I do not believe that INTP's function this way. They don't trade in compelling possibility. Possibility for them comes and goes. Logic is their key. And where does Snowden display this approach? Where does he use logic? Where does he actually reason from principles to situated conclusion, or whatever insulated crap it is INTPs do? This bullshit about Ti being mystical gesturing toward self evidences without actual process is ridiculous. WHERE DOES HE USE LOGIC?
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  8. #58
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    4,318

    Default

    "The storage capability of these systems increases every year consistently by orders of magnitude, ah, to where it's getting to the point you don't have to have done anything wrong, you simply have to eventually fall under suspicion from somebody, even by a wrong call, and then they can use this system to go back in time and scrutinize every decision you've ever made, every friend you've ever discussed something with, and attack you on that basis to sort of derive suspicion from an innocent life and paint anyone in the context of a wrongdoer."

    There, mofos: logic. The contingent logic of current mechanisms and their emerging potential effect on people described as if inescapable. And that's no paranoid vision of the future, no siree, that right there is real objective truth, available for anyone to see. I'm sure you'll all agree.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  9. #59
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    "The storage capability of these systems increases every year consistently by orders of magnitude, ah, to where it's getting to the point you don't have to have done anything wrong, you simply have to eventually fall under suspicion from somebody, even by a wrong call, and then they can use this system to go back in time and scrutinize every decision you've ever made, every friend you've ever discussed something with, and attack you on that basis to sort of derive suspicion from an innocent life and paint anyone in the context of a wrongdoer."

    There, mofos: logic. The contingent logic of current mechanisms and their emerging potential effect on people described as if inescapable. And that's no paranoid vision of the future, no siree, that right there is real objective truth, available for anyone to see. I'm sure you'll all agree.
    What he is describing is the capability of the NSA. This is just fact. He's egging the pudding a little with his scare-mongering, I'll grant you that. But given his knowledge of the way such agencies operate, it's hardly straying into the territory of science fiction. More a lesson from history.

    Your only argument seems to be: this guy is paranoid and fails at logic, therefore he's INTJ. You don't think much of your type, do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    thousands of documented breaches of privacy laws per year can be written off as accidental.
    wut?
    Anyone who believes in the need to secure the nation against terrorism will have little problem with this.
    Sure. Because it has been working so well for you.
    Where does he actually reason from principles to situated conclusion, or whatever insulated crap it is INTPs do?
    See the stuff about policy..and..stuff..holy fuck, bored with this now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  10. #60
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540

    Default

    It's not paranoia when they're really out to get ya.
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ained-heathrow
    The partner of the Guardian journalist who has written a series of stories revealing mass surveillance programmes by the US National Security Agency was held for almost nine hours on Sunday by UK authorities as he passed through London's Heathrow airport on his way home to Rio de Janeiro.

    David Miranda, who lives with Glenn Greenwald, was returning from a trip to Berlin when he was stopped by officers at 8.05am and informed that he was to be questioned under schedule 7 of the Terrorism Act 2000. The controversial law, which applies only at airports, ports and border areas, allows officers to stop, search, question and detain individuals.

    The 28-year-old was held for nine hours, the maximum the law allows before officers must release or formally arrest the individual. According to official figures, most examinations under schedule 7 – over 97% – last less than an hour, and only one in 2,000 people detained are kept for more than six hours.

    Miranda was released, but officials confiscated electronics equipment including his mobile phone, laptop, camera, memory sticks, DVDs and games consoles.

    Since 5 June, Greenwald has written a series of stories revealing the NSA's electronic surveillance programmes, detailed in thousands of files passed to him by whistleblower Edward Snowden. The Guardian has also published a number of stories about blanket electronic surveillance by Britain's GCHQ, also based on documents from Snowden.

    While in Berlin, Miranda had visited Laura Poitras, the US film-maker who has also been working on the Snowden files with Greenwald and the Guardian. The Guardian paid for Miranda's flights.

    "This is a profound attack on press freedoms and the news gathering process," Greenwald said. "To detain my partner for a full nine hours while denying him a lawyer, and then seize large amounts of his possessions, is clearly intended to send a message of intimidation to those of us who have been reporting on the NSA and GCHQ. The actions of the UK pose a serious threat to journalists everywhere.

    "But the last thing it will do is intimidate or deter us in any way from doing our job as journalists. Quite the contrary: it will only embolden us more to continue to report aggressively."
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

Quick Reply Quick Reply

  • :hi:
  • :bye:
  • :)
  • :hug:
  • :happy2:
  • :smile:
  • :wubbie:
  • :D
  • :wink:
  • ;)
  • :newwink:
  • :(
  • :cry:
  • :mad:
  • :dry:
  • :doh:
  • :shock:
  • :huh:
  • :shrug:
  • :blush:

Similar Threads

  1. Edward Norton's type
    By Economica in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 67
    Last Post: 04-28-2013, 01:01 AM
  2. Edward de Bono
    By Lotr246 in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-20-2009, 02:28 AM
  3. John Edwards On WTC Building 7
    By FranG in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 02-02-2009, 07:11 PM
  4. Well, looks like John Edwards is done. . .
    By pure_mercury in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 54
    Last Post: 08-19-2008, 01:34 AM
  5. Jonathan Edwards: Life Resolutions
    By Usehername in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-18-2007, 07:02 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO