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Poll: What Personality Type is Edward Snowden?

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Thread: Edward Snowden

  1. #21
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    An INTJ, though, would have brought the whole system crashing down some afternoon as Snowden did not, and would have been safely installed in some welcoming state by the time anyone knew any better. Then and only then would be time to tell all.
    Exactly.

  2. #22
    lurking Array Rasofy's Avatar
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    ISTJ - blends in and becomes part of the system, trying to believe that he's protecting his country.

    ISTP - "OMG, that's so cool, I can get info from anyone I want. No way I'm gonna blow it"

    INTJ - I like Coriolis' theory.


    Deliberately typist post
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    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


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  3. #23
    Alchemist of life Array Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Not entirely a realistic option in his case. And he'd have to be a genuine enemy of the US state to do it. On top of that, to travel in anonymity to some foreign state and gain sanctuary, he'd have to trade as a spy. The fanfare he created by going public in Hong Kong started more or less a bidding war in which he didn't have to reveal secrets to foreign powers for them to publicly accept him. In private he might be pressured to trade, but while he was still in Hong Kong, he was getting offers, not demands.
    Not knowing the details of Snowden's workplace, I cannot guarantee what I suggest would have been possible. Something leading to a domino effect, with the full results not apparent for days would have been ideal. In any case, he would still have all the information he has now. Also, I suspect an INTJ would have made a point to plan around many of the travel difficulties Snowden has encountered since his revelations in Hong Kong, specifically the various extradition treaties in place, and revocation of his passport. Going to Hong Kong seems to have mainly symbolic value. Snowden took that first step, and now seems to be almost playing things by ear, hoping that it will all turn out. Very P.
    A cry of defiance, and not of fear,
    A voice in the darkness, a knock at the door, and a word that shall echo for evermore!
    For, borne on the night-wind of the Past, through all our history, to the last,
    In the hour of darkness and peril and need, the people will waken and listen to hear

    -- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

  4. #24
    Filthy Apes! Array Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Not knowing the details of Snowden's workplace, I cannot guarantee what I suggest would have been possible. Something leading to a domino effect, with the full results not apparent for days would have been ideal. In any case, he would still have all the information he has now.
    And he would also have committed treason, or something very near it. To directly cause some failure of national security infrastructure, or even just introduce an unauthorized change, would be a considerably more serious act than just revealing the existence of various classified surveillance programs and describing some of their nature.

    Also, I suspect an INTJ would have made a point to plan around many of the travel difficulties Snowden has encountered since his revelations in Hong Kong, specifically the various extradition treaties in place, and revocation of his passport. Going to Hong Kong seems to have mainly symbolic value. Snowden took that first step, and now seems to be almost playing things by ear, hoping that it will all turn out. Very P.
    If his stated reason for choosing Hong Kong was real, then the man is an idiot. But personally, I think he chose it because it offered a stage. The politics of Washington vs Beijing makes Hong Kong a relatively safe place for someone who goes way out in public like he did. Neither side could grab him without first settling with the other.

    But then he got scared and he left too soon. Now instead of Beijing being there to balance Washington, he has only the idiots from wikileaks on his side. That's not playing it by ear. That's being lead out into the dark night by Julian Assange.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  5. #25
    meh Array Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Im sorry no Peter Pan is in no way an ISTJ or even ISTP.

    I would go INTP or even INFP for him. I thought he might be narcissistic INTJ at first but no I don't think so.
    Is there any other kind of INTJ?

    I could see INFP before INTJ. The eyes have it though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    If the impatience is a product of a need for control, and that need is exaggerated by awareness that the outcome is in doubt...

    I saw him first. INTJ.
    Lol. Of course, you still think it's about a need for control. When it's actually about the opposite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I can see an INTJ having a big problem with turnkey tyranny, and gaining that key just to be in a position to do something about it.
    What's funny is that you're not even trying to be funny.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I agree with INTP, for most of the reasons you cite. I also see in Snowden a drive for the Truth, which often attends that type. He wants the truth to be known, and hopes that will be enough to bring about change, but knows it probably won't be.
    It's a compulsion. But one can't neglect that other INTP compulsion either: blowing shit up and then sitting back and watching the fireworks.

    You think Snowden is dumb for not getting all his ducks in a row, but it looks like considering consequences isn't the strength of the NSA period. Why else would their director publicly announce that they plan to fire 90% of their sysadmins? When disgruntled employees present the biggest security risk there is... And they just told the world their systems are going to be wide-open. Oh, look at all the pretty colours...

    That whole article is a delight: "He told his audience to "get the facts" and make up their own minds, adding that the agency itself could do more to enable this: "We've got to push out more, I recognize that," he said."
    This person is in charge of your nation's security. Be afraid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #26
    Filthy Apes! Array Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Lol. Of course, you still think it's about a need for control. When it's actually about the opposite.
    Think? Pffft. Perceive. His appearance and manner in the videos resonates.

    I find it wildly unlikely that an INTP would posture so. He has visible ideals, for goodness' sake. They look like pre-established conclusions. What INTP will set themselves up like that?


    Still, my perceptions are subjective. I don't know what he is for realz.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  7. #27
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    I always find it amusing when people stick the flag of "Truth" onto one type as their hallmark... Like there is a type most likely to seek Lies, or that there *is* only One Truth that Rules Them All after finding them in the darkness to bind them.

    Each type has it's own road to the city that is "Truth". Some roads just happen to be high speed trains and others are horse drawn carriages.

    But I digress.

    I think he's an INTJ for many reasons, and I don't see INTP at all. The kid's in his late 20's... just because he didn't destroy the world doesn't mean he isn't an INTJ. Contingency plans are all well and good so long as they are based in reality. This isn't some spy movie where he can pull high stakes espionage on a superpower like the US with only his MacGyver like superbrain and convenient plot holes. There is only so much maneuverability one can do when the entire world is watching you and you don't have billions of dollars and an army of sexy robot hookers at your disposal.

    If this kid was an INTP I think he would have sat gathering evidence for another 10 years to make sure every I and T was properly attired. By that time he would emerge from his TiSi bunker to tell the world his discoveries, only to find that everyone knew about them 8 years ago.

    I used to play strategy games with an INTJ friend of mine who wished to teach me the ways of the NiSe Force. My "gameplan" was initially very simple: be not disturbed while I went through each step in order to get to the final level so that I could then start building up my army. He would then send like 2 villagers and an axeman and destroy me within the first 5 minutes. Then he would explain to me how he had an idea of a plan on how he wanted to approach the game but that plans must change to meet the present conditions.

    So who knows what Snowden's secondary and hundrethary plans were. Hong Kong was a bit of a confusing choice but I can see what Kalach is getting at with his theory on it. The end result is the same though: whatever motivated him to leave HK, it ended up being premature.

    Perhaps the dreaded disease, Ni Tunnel Vision, did him in.

  8. #28
    Alchemist of life Array Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    I always find it amusing when people stick the flag of "Truth" onto one type as their hallmark... Like there is a type most likely to seek Lies, or that there *is* only One Truth that Rules Them All after finding them in the darkness to bind them.

    Each type has it's own road to the city that is "Truth". Some roads just happen to be high speed trains and others are horse drawn carriages.
    Every type values friendship, adaptability, comfort, and many other things as well, but not with equal priority, and not in the same way. INTPs seem to value establishing objective truth for its own sake, more than other goals, and more than other types do. For INTJs this usually isn't enough. We want to DO something with that truth. We want to use it to make something happen, not just put it out there and hope for the best.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    I think he's an INTJ for many reasons, and I don't see INTP at all. The kid's in his late 20's... just because he didn't destroy the world doesn't mean he isn't an INTJ. Contingency plans are all well and good so long as they are based in reality. This isn't some spy movie where he can pull high stakes espionage on a superpower like the US with only his MacGyver like superbrain and convenient plot holes. There is only so much maneuverability one can do when the entire world is watching you and you don't have billions of dollars and an army of sexy robot hookers at your disposal.

    So who knows what Snowden's secondary and hundrethary plans were. Hong Kong was a bit of a confusing choice but I can see what Kalach is getting at with his theory on it. The end result is the same though: whatever motivated him to leave HK, it ended up being premature.
    The highlighted is an important consideration. This story is still unfolding, so it remains to be seen just how much - or how little - advance planning he used. I might be willing to reconsider INTJ should more facts come out, but for now, I still see more INTP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    You think Snowden is dumb for not getting all his ducks in a row, but it looks like considering consequences isn't the strength of the NSA period. Why else would their director publicly announce that they plan to fire 90% of their sysadmins? When disgruntled employees present the biggest security risk there is... And they just told the world their systems are going to be wide-open. Oh, look at all the pretty colours...

    That whole article is a delight: "He told his audience to "get the facts" and make up their own minds, adding that the agency itself could do more to enable this: "We've got to push out more, I recognize that," he said."
    This person is in charge of your nation's security. Be afraid.
    No, I don't think he is dumb, just disinclined to the kind of contingency planning most INTJs indulge in, but the jury is still out on that, as I mentioned above. And no, Snowden is not the NSA. They are the people now trying to have him hunted down. They are dumb for many reasons, including the sysadmin announcement. I don't know whether that is scary, or reassuring.
    A cry of defiance, and not of fear,
    A voice in the darkness, a knock at the door, and a word that shall echo for evermore!
    For, borne on the night-wind of the Past, through all our history, to the last,
    In the hour of darkness and peril and need, the people will waken and listen to hear

    -- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

  9. #29
    meh Array Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    And no, Snowden is not the NSA. They are the people now trying to have him hunted down.
    No shit. Thanks for clearing that up. Good to see someone remembered to take her literal pills today.
    They are dumb for many reasons, including the sysadmin announcement. I don't know whether that is scary, or reassuring.
    Dumb is never reassuring.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    I find it wildly unlikely that an INTP would posture so. He has visible ideals, for goodness' sake. They look like pre-established conclusions. What INTP will set themselves up like that?
    Oh my goodness. He isn't posturing. He oozes sincerity. You can't even see perceive it. Too funny.

    Are you for real? INTPs don't have ideals? INTPs inhabit a world of ideals. Naïve ones, frequently. They're the type perhaps least able to compromise them too. (INTJs will compromise because Te pushes them to concern themselves with what is possible or achievable in the real world of things, whereas INTPs don't allow themselves to be limited by those constraints.) Yes, it's an idealism that sometimes dissolves into nihilism, but even nihilism is an idealistic stance (of sorts).
    Hello, Anonymous. Hello Open Source Community. Hello Jaron Lanier. Hello composer of the world's most successful anti-national anthem.

    You might say I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one.

    Just ask the poster child of INTPness:

    "The pursuit of truth and beauty is a sphere of activity in which we are permitted to remain children all our lives."

    "Never do anything against conscience, even if the state demands it."

    "I am not only a pacifist but a militant pacifist. I am willing to fight for peace."

    "What need is there for responsibility? I believe that the horrifying deterioration in the ethical conduct of people today stems from the mechanization and de-humanization of our lives, a disastrous byproduct of the development of the scientific and technical mentality. Nostra culpa. Man grows cold faster than the planet he inhabits."
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  10. #30
    Filthy Apes! Array Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Are you for real? INTPs don't have ideals? INTPs inhabit a world of ideals. Naïve ones, frequently. They're the type perhaps least able to compromise them too. (INTJs will compromise because Te pushes them to concern themselves with what is possible or achievable in the real world of things, whereas INTPs don't allow themselves to be limited by those constraints.) Yes, it's an idealism that sometimes dissolves into nihilism, but even nihilism is an idealistic stance (of sorts).
    Hello, Anonymous. Hello Open Source Community. Hello Jaron Lanier. Hello composer of the world's most successful anti-national anthem.
    Pffft.

    You might say I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one.

    Just ask the poster child of INTPness:

    "The pursuit of truth and beauty is a sphere of activity in which we are permitted to remain children all our lives."

    "Never do anything against conscience, even if the state demands it."

    "I am not only a pacifist but a militant pacifist. I am willing to fight for peace."

    "What need is there for responsibility? I believe that the horrifying deterioration in the ethical conduct of people today stems from the mechanization and de-humanization of our lives, a disastrous byproduct of the development of the scientific and technical mentality. Nostra culpa. Man grows cold faster than the planet he inhabits."

    "It becomes a thing of these people are against the country or against the government. But I'm not. I'm, I'm no different from anybody else, I don't have special skills, uh, I'm just another guy who sits there, day to day, in the office, watches what hap-what's happening and goes, this is not something that's our place to decide, the public needs to decide whether these programs and policies are right or wrong."


    The video is edited, but all he does is talk of hidden worldly mechanisms about which he has formed overview conclusions. Plainly, all he's done is taken a moral position, but he frames it as being of universal interest and validity. Pick an INTJ that doesn't communicate this way every time they open their mouths. The easy accusations of paranoia that come to INTJs all the time? They're a product of this kind of presentation. So the style he appears to display resonates for me. And INTPs do this stuff too? I guess so.


    "The greatest fear that I have regarding the outcome for America of these disclosures is that nothing'll change."
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

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