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Poll: What Personality Type is Edward Snowden?

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Thread: Edward Snowden

  1. #231
    The Senate Osprey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Says you. I think it has more to do with being realistic. He would be an idiot to assume he could do any more than inform the public. He can inform in a way that suggests the choice of certain options over others, as he has, but that is where his influence ends or ended at the time of the initial leak. That is not to say that, therefore, he must be an INTJ. It merely erodes this ridiculous premise for the INTP argument.
    I hadn't considered that. What say you to a distinction between INTJs and INTPs being certainty vs. doubt? Humility perhaps is inaccurate, as people, rightly or wrongly, have accused me of arrogance. I edited the post to be about INTP doubt instead of "humility". Where would you say Snowden falls on the certainty vs. doubt spectrum?

    As for @Kalach, I concede. You win. I suggest you go to the dollar store and buy some confetti. You have won the argument and defeated me.

    Forget the dead you've left; they will not follow you.
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  2. #232

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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    What say you to a distinction between INTJs and INTPs being certainty vs. doubt?
    I think the distinction is between the sources or standards of certainty. I tried to illustrate it once in another thread. The difference is made even clearer when you read the INTP's response. Ni, metaphorically speaking, has a hunch whether the pieces fit and is satisfied if they seem to; Ti needs to put the puzzle together (or take it apart again) before it feels justified to say that they do fit.

    That is my subjective take on it, based on personal experience. If you want to know the theory truth about it, you have to ask someone who read the books.

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Where would you say Snowden falls on the certainty vs. doubt spectrum?
    I think Snowden did his research before he waved the flag, but I also think that he had to take a few leaps to be able to paint a whole picture. Taking those leaps is, in my opinion, to judge the light at the end of the tunnel without going all the way through it.

  3. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Ni, metaphorically speaking, has a hunch whether the pieces fit and is satisfied if they seem to; Ti needs to put the puzzle together (or take it apart again) before it feels justified to say that they do fit.
    This resonates with me.

  4. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I think the distinction is between the sources or standards of certainty. I tried to illustrate it once in another thread. The difference is made even clearer when you read the INTP's response. Ni, metaphorically speaking, has a hunch whether the pieces fit and is satisfied if they seem to; Ti needs to put the puzzle together (or take it apart again) before it feels justified to say that they do fit.
    True. Ti is dissatisfied with leaps. Ti wants to see the steps. We're like the math teachers always asking you to show your work.



    I think Snowden did his research before he waved the flag, but I also think that he had to take a few leaps to be able to paint a whole picture. Taking those leaps is, in my opinion, to judge the light at the end of the tunnel without going all the way through it.
    You mean with statements like.... "This has too much potential to be used nefariously. " (Paraphrasing here.)

    Hmmm... I just think his hesitation and his reluctance suggest that he isn't prone to taking those leaps. If taking those leaps is natural, as is it would be for someone with dominant intuition, wouldn't he have leaped much earlier? Why did it take him so long?

    It's the fact that he almost seemed to notwant to do anything that makes him seem INTP to me. We step in only when it looks like nothing is going to get done if we don't.

    This is basically the root of the issue for me.
    Forget the dead you've left; they will not follow you.
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  5. #235

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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    True. Ti is dissatisfied with leaps. Ti wants to see the steps. We're like the math teachers always asking you to show your work.
    Much of academic philosophy is like that, too. Very annoying.

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Hmmm... I just think his hesitation and his reluctance suggest that he isn't prone to taking those leaps. If taking those leaps is natural, as is it would be for someone with dominant intuition, wouldn't he have leaped much earlier? Why did it take him so long?
    I have no way of knowing, simply because it is hard to come by a model by which to judge how fast and in what fashion this kind of bold move is or should normally be done. Anyone with half a brain would hesitate to make it, though. He knew it would change his life forever. Also, if you are going to oppose the US government in a battle of persuasion to be able to frame the issue, it would seem prudent to become an expert on your topic first.

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    It's the fact that he almost seemed to notwant to do anything that makes him seem INTP to me. We step in only when it looks like nothing is going to get done if we don't.
    Not everyone wants to end like Julian Assange. He sacrificed a lot.

    In the standard INTJ profile, it always says: Not eager to lead, but will step up if nobody else can do it right.
    Last edited by Nicodemus; 09-10-2013 at 01:29 PM.

  6. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    In the standard INTJ profile, it always says: Not eager to lead, but will step up if nobody else can do it right.
    ^ That is also said of ISTPs.

    Earlier I had the idea to just ask Snowden his type. I actually have a JavaScript version of the MBTI that I made from an official one which I use to type all my friends. I'd have to PGP sign it of course haha.

  7. #237

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    Quote Originally Posted by mingularity View Post
    ^ That is also said of ISTPs.
    Probably true of all introverts. The 'if nobody else' part kind of leaves the door open for everyone.

  8. #238
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    It's such a bug in your butt isn't it? That we could be better at this stuff than you are. More credible. More influential. More charismatic. Just... MOAR.

    Because you are so obsessed with who owns what, you seem unable to understand how someone could be both passionate about personal privacy and the rights of the individual but also open to the principles of consensual community ownership. It's very simple Kalach.

    PRIVACY and PRIVATE OWNERSHIP are not the same thing. They don't even sound the same, really.

    In fact, they are at odds. Proprietary s/w is bad for personal privacy. As my previous link highlighted, open source software is LESS vulnerable than commercial s/w to the kind of backdoor exploits that Snowden has exposed.
    His leaks have damaged the credibility and even viability of commercial encryption schemes.

    Snowden gets it. He's into sharing things. But on his terms.

    Because, ya know, he's INTP.

  9. #239
    The Senate Osprey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Don't blame me, Quick-To-Judge Guy. You asked for descriptions of the functions, and now you're getting them. There's been some on Si and Ti, and now a bit of Ni and by implication Te... Who knew that dollies could be your best reply. Probably Jung would have seen that coming.
    Yes, but not from you. You didn't explain or say anything. You just kept on ignoring any argument I made. You cherry picked new data to support your beliefs, rather than using data to refute my arguments, while meanwhile engaging in bizarre histronic displays like how INTPs prevent the world from having "nice things" or engaging in feeble attempts at insults (failing at "fi"... why would any of us give a shit?). You accuse me of not "knowing" anything about typology, while always trying to change the subject when you are asked to clarify and share what you understand about typology. You claim to be an expert, but have done nothing to show me that you know more about typology then I do.

    You want me to fellate you and admit that you know much more about typology than I do, but you have done nothing to demonstrate this. You aren't providing arguments, you've written creative essays about how you're actually a very moral person even though you're an INTJ.

    I'm tired of doing it with you. You win. You know more about typology than me, and your typological analysis and convictions are without fault.


    Forget the dead you've left; they will not follow you.
    The vagabond who is rapping at your door, is standing in the clothes you once wore.

  10. #240
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    Hey @bologna, can we get this thread changed to a more appropriate title, like, "Why Kalach fucking hates INTPs"?

    Because that's really the focus of this thread.
    Snowden's just a derail and should be excised to the Graveyard.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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