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Poll: What Personality Type is Edward Snowden?

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Thread: Edward Snowden

  1. #161
    ציפור Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Truth is not always fun.

    Seriously though, what is the basis for the Electra/Oedipal complex and penis/womb envy? If somebody is claiming I have secret urges I don't really know I have, and I can't see how that is applicable to myself, they're going to need to explain how they know that I have those.

    Otherwise, I'm inclined to believe that these theories are being used to prop up or support some other theory.. that the truth of them is irrelevant because they are too useful. Not that you're doing that. I just haven't seen anything that suggests otherwise.
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  2. #162
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    It also explains why Snowden is a confirmed INTP.
    Still banging that drum . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowden
    I can’t hope to change the way things are going by overtly complaining, writing letters, or blowing things up. That’s not the way a good person does things. I will, however, do what I can with the tools that are available to me.

    A good person? Define 'good person'. Define 'bad person'.

    Quote Originally Posted by About Snowden
    He claimed to own the same gun as James Bond and posted glamour photos of himself.
    So, in addition to moralizing, apparently he was into attention-whoring and harbored a desire to be America's Next Top Model.
    INTP? Of course. It's a perfect fit.

  3. #163
    ציפור Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    INTP? Of course. It's a perfect fit.
    Yup. He's a confirmed INTP. I'm glad you've opened your eyes.
    I looked out this morning and the sun was gone
    Turned on some music to start my day
    I lost myself in a familiar song
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  4. #164
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I'm glad you've opened your eyes.
    Indeed.

  5. #165
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Truth is not always fun.
    You lie!

    Seriously though, what is the basis for the Electra/Oedipal complex and penis/womb envy?
    A combination of myth and the projection of a private fixation? I dunno. Ask a Freudian.

    Otherwise, I'm inclined to believe that these theories are being used to prop up or support some other theory.. that the truth of them is irrelevant because they are too useful. Not that you're doing that. I just haven't seen anything that suggests otherwise.
    I'm not disagreeing with you. Psychology/psychoanalysis suffered in its infancy too much from a lack of scientific rigour. From which it has yet to free itself, it must be said.
    Those theories however, have something that yours (a couple of posts back) lacks: internal consistency.

    'twas my point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #166
    ציפור Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Those theories however, have something that yours (a couple of posts back) lacks: internal consistency.
    I didn't fully articulate it.

    I think the striving for "power" (or "presence" to use something more ethically neutral) is Se. You seem to be into socionics, IIRC, and socionics describes Se the same way. Se is about fully grasping your environment. I don't really see how this relates to Fi, as the INFPs I've known were not about that. If they were ever control freaks, it seemed to be more about harmony with their inner state... they didn't like the reaction to something they were having, and seeked to change the environment to bring it more in line with themselves.

    Se is concrete, and seeks to navigate actual physical environments correctly. INTJs seem to place some importance on this, and it seems important to their self-image, just like Fe is important for my self-image.

    I agree that Fi is important for INTJ's, but the more competitive nature of the INTJ is not because of the Fi, but because of the Se, I think. Although, I wonder if it's a situation where Se provides the ability to control environments, but Fi provides the will. I can see why Fi would seek to change the environment, to bring it in line with itself. I suppose Se is important as the means for doing this.

    You might have a point here. Interesting.

    I do think there is something "aspirational" about the inferior function, it's the function that people are going to most want to "prove" something to others with.

    "See....I'm not a cold-blooded robot.... I care about poverty and crap! "

    "See...I'm not an overly-abstracted nerd... I like gangsta rap!"

    That's my main point... really. INTPs want to be engaged and invested and passionate, INTJs want to be powerful and a force to be reckoned with.

    Introverted intuition has nothing to do with physical power. Se does. Fi might generate the will to have that power, though.

    The real reason I think Snowden is INTP and not INTJ is because he doesn't really want to be the one who makes the calls. He doesn't want the power. To me, it seems as though he feels as though the responsibility fell on him, and he was the only one who could act.
    I looked out this morning and the sun was gone
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    I lost myself in a familiar song
    I closed my eyes and I slipped away


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  7. #167
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    You seem to be into socionics,
    Um..no.

    You misunderstand me. What you call "inferior Fe" ("annoying hippies with causes") in INTPs better describes Fi than any kind of Fe...
    Inferior Fe != Fi
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  8. #168
    ציפור Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Um..no.

    You misunderstand me. What you call "inferior Fe" ("annoying hippies with causes") in INTPs better describes Fi than any kind of Fe...
    Inferior Fe != Fi

    Why does it better describe Fi? Explain what Fi is, and what Fe is then, and how that cannot be Fe. I think the "causes" exists with Fi, but it looks really different in a way that I can't quite pin down yet, except that it seems more "absolute" and less "concrete."

    From now on, if someone says "no... that's way more Fe than Fi..." or "that's way more Fi than Fe" to me, they'll have to explain. Only then will I be able to judge the merits of the argument and issue a ruling.

    Otherwise, I'll be forced to conclude that all people are really doing with that is taking the aspects of feeling they don't like, and attributing them to the dastardly "other" feeling function.

    You may misunderstand what I mean by "annoying hippies with causes." It was a self-deprecating exaggeration, more than anything else.
    I looked out this morning and the sun was gone
    Turned on some music to start my day
    I lost myself in a familiar song
    I closed my eyes and I slipped away


    Visit my Johari: http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

  9. #169
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Why does it better describe Fi? Explain what Fi is, and what Fe is then, and how that cannot be Fe.
    Seriously? There are plenty of primers out there.
    You appear to allude to an iconoclasm/eccentricity which characterises Ji (users).

    If what you say is not what you mean then I can hardly be expected to understand you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  10. #170
    ציפור Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Seriously? There are plenty of primers out there.
    You appear to allude to an iconoclasm/eccentricity which characterises Ji (users).

    If what you say is not what you mean then I can hardly be expected to understand you.
    It might help if you explained what you mean, and then I can clear up any misconceptions... nevertheless, I will try as best as I am able.

    Perhaps "causes" is a poor word choice, and "issues" might be better. In any case, the salient part of it is not the way in which the "issue" is tackled. When I speak of "annoying hippie idealism" I don't necessarily mean people engaging in demonstrations or putting bumper stickers on their cars, or being consumed by an "issue" every waking moment.

    All I mean with an "issue" is concern with an aspect of morality that an organizaton, group, or society is deficient in. Please do not tell me you are above such things, because your posting history suggests otherwise.

    Fi users will tackle these "issues", but it seems as the end goal is eliminating the lack of harmony between themselves and the environment. As long as though they feel they are doing the right thing, they will be satisfied. Fe users have more of an external change in mind, and can rarely be contented by purely symbolic acts and "inner" proofs of morality. "Taking the high road" and being strictly "honorable" is more of a Fi concern than a Fe concern. Fe, as extraverted feeling, when directed towards progress, is focused on actually getting shit done for "progress" (whatever that looks like), rather than on maintaining inner purity.

    If you're going to go "that's not Fe, that's Fi" please present an alternative model of Fi vs. Fe if you want a hearing.

    Conservative INTPs are similarly concerned with "issues", it's just that they are different issues, I should add.

    Additionally... inferior Fi seems to manifest itself as a striving for inner purity.
    I looked out this morning and the sun was gone
    Turned on some music to start my day
    I lost myself in a familiar song
    I closed my eyes and I slipped away


    Visit my Johari: http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

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