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Poll: What Personality Type is Edward Snowden?

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Thread: Edward Snowden

  1. #121
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    You, INTPs, you don't even know how to describe your own judgment style. You don't know how to distinguish it from others. Until you do, how are you making type calls?
    If you're the only person who can't see something that is transparent to everyone else, you have to start wondering if the fault might lie with you. Humility leads to insight.

    When you opened the thread, you apparently weren't sure yourself of his type. The only introverted thinker you wouldn't countenance is INTP, you wouldn't even put it on the table (despite your own intuitions that he might in fact be one).
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Always policy. That bothered me in the Snowden videos because he uses the word several times. "Might he be one of them?" I wondered.
    Why would it bother you if you were approaching this with an open mind?
    The fact you were prepared to consider ISTP suggests that you had not ruled out a Ti Dom at that point, despite your subsequent insistence that he has no Ti. Honestly, reading you now it looks like the only reason you won't agree with the emerging consensus about his type is because you consider INTPs to be deficient, and you admire this fellow : ergo, he can't be INTP. Even if you had a hitherto-fore faultless rep for accurate type-readings, that logic isn't going to impress anyone.

    All of your arguments stem from misunderstanding or prejudice.
    INTPs can't have ideals.
    INTPs can't be vague (with Ne aux, seriously?)
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Well he's been called terrorist and traitor, why not INTP too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    I do not believe that INTP's function this way.
    so what you believe about INTPs is more important than what INTPs know about themselves?

    Where he does something INTPish that doesn't make sense to you, you just call him a liar:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    If his stated reason for choosing Hong Kong was real, then the man is an idiot. But personally, I think he chose it because it offered a stage.
    <-assumption
    You know him better than he knows himself right? Because he thinks he's a P but you KNOW he's not.
    If you are going to rely on intuitions and your own interpretation of events, rather than accept what he is saying on face value, you can twist anything to look like anything.

    Yet in spite of your claimed affinity, you don't seem to understand the man/where he is coming from at all:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    With only the things we know so far, then for him surveillance is oppression. Which seems an odd position. But he's speaking in terms of generations.
    <-assumption

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    how does he make that leap of logic?

    [indent]What does that even mean, and why is he talking about himself in the plural third person?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Why is the public owed an explanation? What is it about the democratic model that places this obligation on him? He doesn't say.

    This truth? Which one? Which damn truth? What truth is he revealing? If someone would actually ascribe to him the truth he is showing, we could get some sense of what typologically he's been doing.
    In fact, the frustrations you feel about Snowden, mirror your frustrations with INTPs in general. You just can't Se it, because you LURVE him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    I said, he's paranoid, and doesn't do logic well. The missing part is, he's also right.
    ...
    The details aren't there yet. He could be wrong.
    Fine. Whatever. You're confused. We understand.

    However, you did get something right:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    I may project.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #122
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    What an oddball group of thinkers you are. No wonder where the opportunity presents you'll claim no four letter code truly represent a a person. When one of your number "proves" a type fits, the whole proof could fit anyone. Can generalise, is detached, waits, chooses strategy, and in an interview where he's asked questions, he informs. Gold star.
    ...
    we must picture a, man whose constant aim -- in so far, of course, as he is a [p. 435] pure type
    No one is a pure type. The Dude himself said that there's no such thing as a pure type - outside an asylum.

    Therefore, even if you could demonstrate Snowden using Te, so what? Any moron can use Te, and in a sysadmin it's essential. It's funny how often INTJs accuse INTPs of hair-splitting, given their own tendency to examine minutiae and miss the big picture. Instead of scrutinising his every word like he is the new Messiah, you have to look at the pattern of his speech, his interaction style, the pattern of his actions, the pattern of his life choices. These scream ITP to me and near everyone else without an anti-INTP bias. You have to ask yourself why you are so resistant to the inevitable.

    You seem unwilling/unable to demonstrate your reasoning beyond quoting reams of Jung and asserting "he seems like this to me". I will take your quotes and show you how Snowden uses introverted thinking above the other kind:
    Quote Originally Posted by Jung on Ti
    This thinking may be conceived either with concrete or with abstract factors, but always at the decisive points it is orientated by subjective data. Hence, it does not lead from concrete experience back again into objective things, but always to the subjective content, External facts are not the aim and origin of this thinking, although the introvert would often like to make it so appear.
    So, what is a subjective conclusion appears as objective fact to the Ti-dom at times, who may state it in such terms.
    For Snowden, the NSA "broke" democracy. That this isn't actually an objective truth seems to be clearer to you (the INTJ) than it is to the INTPs, who follow his logic completely. In fact, you spelled this out, but put the wrong spin on it. You interpreted it as symbolic and visionary. For you, the "real threat" is yet to occur and can only be revealed at this point by Ni "vision", for Snowden, the INTP, it has already happened.

    Hence, in the statement of new facts, its chief value is indirect, because new views rather than the perception of new facts are its main concern. It formulates questions and creates theories; it opens up prospects and yields insight, but in the presence of facts it exhibits a reserved demeanour. As illustrative examples they have their value, but they must not prevail. Facts are collected as evidence or examples for a theory, but never for their own sake
    This is what he did. He observed the instances of NSA misconduct, formulated a theory about how/why this happens, what it leads to and what might halt it, and then acted in harmony with that theory. He "opened up prospects and yielded insights" - that's EXACTLY what he did. He collected facts, instances of "abuses", not because they were important in themselves, but because they illustrated the problems with POLICY -the pattern of wrong-doing he'd observed and the root cause he'd identified -that made such things inevitable.

    [of Te] "as in the former case the purely empirical heaping together of facts paralyses thought and smothers their meaning, "
    ...much as you have been doing here.
    "so in the latter case introverted thinking shows a dangerous tendency [p. 482] to coerce facts into the shape of its image, "
    Actually what you accused Snowden of doing here....
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    They look like pre-established conclusions. What INTP will set themselves up like that?
    by contrast, there's dominant extroverted thinking, which sounds like:

    "This type of man gives the deciding voice-not merely for himself alone but also on behalf of his entourage-"
    What universe do you inhabit that allows you to see this kind of dogmatism in Ed "the people must decide" Snowden?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #123
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    You can write all the weird creative exercises you want, this doesn't change the following fact:

    Snowden is an INTP. Period.
    Fact?

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    When you're a member and you have been for a while, and you look around the forum, you see things that may be disturbing. For instance, INTPs. Over the course of a normal life you might only see one or two of these... people. But when you see everything, every hair splitting pointless argument they do, you recognise that some of these things are actually characteristic patterns. Or, "abuses." And when you talk to people about them in a place like this where this is the normal state of practice, people tend not to take them very seriously. They think no one can see characteristic patterns, there's no four letter code that tells you everything, and you just have to wait and see. But over time that awareness of fundamental naysaying, of that characteristic urge to stop action and tell people, no, you're not quite right because... sort of builds up, and you feel compelling to talk about it. But the more you talk about it, the more you're ignored, until later when they pile on to find new ways to say no. Eventually you realise that these things need to be determined by competent adults, not by some INTP who'll find a new way to say no before committing to action, even to the extent they sort of believe saying no is action.

    INTPs are literally why we can't have nice things. They'll step up to say it's amusing you think it's nice, but here's a small part of what you said and how it adds up to something different, so the nice thing is some kind of joke on you, sorry.
    *frames*

  5. #125
    ציפור Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Fact?
    Snowden is a confirmed INTP. No need to debate it further. It's been confirmed.
    I looked out this morning and the sun was gone
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  6. #126
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Snowden is a confirmed INTP.
    Where is Snowden's post?

  7. #127
    ציפור Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Where is Snowden's post?
    The mods removed it because they didn't want to face the wrath of the NSA, but luckily, I saved it in notepad, anticipating that this might happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowden
    Hey guys, I just wanted to weigh in on the situation. I'm definitely an INTP. I've taken the offical MBTI 5 times and have gotten INTP each time. In addition, I identify with INTPs way more then INTJs. Anyway, I'm sorry I can't post more, but I kind of have other things to worry about right now, you know?
    Snowden is a confirmed INTP. Period.
    I looked out this morning and the sun was gone
    Turned on some music to start my day
    I lost myself in a familiar song
    I closed my eyes and I slipped away


    Visit my Johari: http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

  8. #128
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    The mods removed it because they didn't want to face the wrath of the NSA, but luckily, I saved it in notepad, anticipating that this might happen.
    Does the smoking gun really need to be a mushroom cloud?
    What a bunch of jokers on the internet think about Snowden doesn't mean jack shit. It's not "confirmation."

  9. #129
    ציפור Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    What a bunch of jokers on the internet think about Snowden doesn't mean jack shit. It's not "confirmation."
    It is when you have a lot of evidence.
    I looked out this morning and the sun was gone
    Turned on some music to start my day
    I lost myself in a familiar song
    I closed my eyes and I slipped away


    Visit my Johari: http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

  10. #130
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    It is when you have a lot of evidence.
    That dog won't hunt.

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