How abstract is too abstract?

[Night]

Nicely said, Antisocial.

I feel ya.

[Jeffster]

If it's about something that could never happen, then it's too abstract for me. Okay, I can occasionally bite on the "if you were a donut, what flavor would you be?" kinda questions, but not for long, and not a bunch of those things. That's exactly why this forum gets bogged down sometimes. When people focus on real life interactions with people, the topics are interesting, when it's all just people spouting theories with no examples or asking questions about things that have no basis in reality, then it gets boring fast.

[Cimarron]

Originally Posted by Antisocial one

I admit that my thinking stile is not too understandable and that is the problem all the time in real life.

The connection was that you can't understand what is keeping you alive if you focus only on your senses. You can't be progressive from the point of science if you don't use abstract thinking. You can be scientist that is mixing same chemicals every day but you will not fully understand what is going on if you don't get abstract.

So I guess the 4th question was meant to be very general, to try to cover everything, almost like restating the topic of this thread.

Originally Posted by Antisocial one

I hope that this make some sense to you.

My question about him and much S he is was an attempt to get the information about the S/N ratio on MBTI tests. I have asked that simply because it is important for the thread. Personally I get high N all the time.

I specifically avoided the question because I think a self-evaluation would be biased. In addition, I'm still grappling with the idea of what the N dimension of the MBTI test is supposed to measure. But don't answer that here, let's stay on topic (unless you think it is vital to this thread).

Originally Posted by Antisocial one

All of this brings the key part to the surface.

Can you jump from one part of the picture to another or you must always go step by step?

I will say that in recent years, the main hurdles in my life have been due to what I think is a weakness in the so-called N factor. It's hard for me to self-analyze, but I think that I usually process things step by step. I can also hold global views of concepts, with less clarity on the details, but I often hope to clarify those details eventually--and I don't even know if that is necessarily in contrast to S anyway.

I appreciate the attention, but this thread isn't about my S vs N strength. That would be a separate topic by itself.

[Antisocial one]

I have asked about your S simply because I wanted to know whit who I am dealing with, since you are the one who represents the S side in the thread nothing more.

What is the problem with self-analysis?

Form experiance I know that many people have that problem I don't undestand why?

But it looks to me that the problem is that the person can't look upon itself from third person perspective but I could be wrong.

I have a guts to say that I can clearly see the global picture and details on that picture and I am very good in spoting the interaction between the details even if we add dimension of time into it.
But if you want me to fix hole in the boat or something similar to that you will be disappointed with the result.

When I was a kid my father bought me some tools for kids and materials so that I could train. Today,15 years after the entire package looks like something that was never used (because it was't).
To tell you the truth I think that he never actually recoverd from that blow.

One stupid question, how would you describe your sight?

[Bella]

Originally Posted by Antisocial one

Why it has to something specific?

But you're talking about a system. How is a system not something specific.

[Antisocial one]

For me I doesn't have to specific at all because we could be taking about the idea of the system in general.


I probably sound like a smartass to you.







I apologize for my bad english it is simply that I dont see the mistakes.

[Aimahn]

Originally Posted by Jeffster

If it's about something that could never happen, then it's too abstract for me. Okay, I can occasionally bite on the "if you were a donut, what flavor would you be?" kinda questions, but not for long, and not a bunch of those things. That's exactly why this forum gets bogged down sometimes. When people focus on real life interactions with people, the topics are interesting, when it's all just people spouting theories with no examples or asking questions about things that have no basis in reality, then it gets boring fast.

This is how my conversations usually are with my family. My mom and sister pretty much have jeffsters mentality, and it is especially noticeable when I try and segueway into a conversation with them after speaking with my dad(INTJ).

I think the inherent interest in "abstract" things plays a huge role, if theres no reality based context or foreseeable relevance my mom and my oldest sister are immediately bored out of their mind. In terms of conversation If I have a decent amount of energy then I really sort of enjoy utilizing my ability to think abstract to creating analogies that more succintly capture my point. With my dad this isn't as necessary we both can sort of formulate whats unsaid in our heads and continue for hours till there is admittedly no concrete base to fall back on in the conversation.

In terms of S/N communication difficulties I think the difference lies in the ablity to formulate metaphors and analogies on the N side of things. I think S's will not generate interest in a completely abstract topic unless theres something more concrete or personal they can invest themselves in. In terms of MBTI they would probably really value it as a tool to understand someone or themselves but wouldn't necessarily value it as way to cross reference other theories, ideas and other abstract things. I'm having a brain fart right now, but it seems they don't seem to really get great pleasure in building and dwelling in the abstract arena for its own sake, at least for a prolonged amount of time.

To expect something else and not make an effort to bridge the gap I think is more a measure of personal selfishness and inability to communicate.

[Aimahn]

Originally Posted by Bella

But you're talking about a system. How is a system not something specific.

In the middle of rather lengthy conversations with my dad the level of specificty usually move heirachly to the point where the specific is infact just the system itself. For example during a long road trip one time we started off discussing a break down of our uhaul, then mechanics and their jobs, then engineering, then physics, then intelligence and mathematical thinking, then the history of studying, and then we just sort of stayed in that arena for a while. If you were to ask me the specifics of that conversation I would say it would lie in the concepts of physics, math, engineering, thinking, communication, economics, politics and generally the advancement of human thought and how that has played out in our current environment.

[Bella]

Originally Posted by Antisocial one

For me I doesn't have to specific at all because we could be taking about the idea of the system in general.


I probably sound like a smartass to you.







I apologize for my bad english it is simply that I dont see the mistake.

No, I don't think you're a smart-ass, just a crazy N. I'm kidding.
This conversation is hilarious.

You say THE system, so it must be something specific. You mean society and all it's stuff?
Or do you actually mean A system.

[Antisocial one]

Originally Posted by Bella

No, I don't think you're a smart-ass, just a crazy N. I'm kidding.
This conversation is hilarious.

You say THE system, so it must be something specific. You mean society and all it's stuff.
Or do you actually mean A system.

I mean "A system".

The problem is that I don't talk about anything specific.
But there is no bigger system then reality and reality is THE system.
This is general problem for Ns because we have a huge problem with puting things into words.