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  1. #51
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    In honesty, I don't know to what degree he was a comedian (in the sense of being a stand-up) prior to that. He certainly wasn't a stand-up when the Office was on the air in the UK. He's more of a TV writer and actor to me than a stand-up comedian.

    Though I suppose the definition of comedian is variable in that way, I had semi-assumed this thread was primarily about stand-up comedy.
    Stand-up comedy seems rather fraught to me, I prefer comedy based on character and narrative.

  2. #52
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Stand-up comedy seems rather fraught to me, I prefer comedy based on character and narrative.
    If you don't believe the comedy in stand-up can come from character and narrative, I think you've dismissed it a bit prematurely.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  3. #53
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    George Carlin, some twenty years later, is still culturally relevant. Not only culturally relevant, avant garde even.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    If you don't believe the comedy in stand-up can come from character and narrative, I think you've dismissed it a bit prematurely.
    Stand up comedy is about one liners. And the purpose of one liners, that is, one line jokes, is to make the audience gag. That is why one liners are called gags.

    And there is no room in one liners to develop character or narrative.

    So stand up comedians are essentially comic book characters without depth or development.

    And why should we be surprised that the USA is the home of stand up comedy because the USA is based on ideology and ideology is best illustrated with cartoon characters.

  5. #55
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Stand up comedy is about one liners. And the purpose of one liners, that is, one line jokes, is to make the audience gag. That is why one liners are called gags.

    And there is no room in one liners to develop character or narrative.

    So stand up comedians are essentially comic book characters without depth or development.

    And why should we be surprised that the USA is the home of stand up comedy because the USA is based on ideology and ideology is best illustrated with cartoon characters.
    I fundamentally disagree. Stand-up, like all forms of comedy, is what the performer/writer makes it. Sometimes that's one liners. Sometimes it's longer anecdotes or the procedure of getting to know the performer or someone the performer describes as a person, and drawing comedy from that. The line of thought you laid out could be applied to literally any form of comedy if you set out to disparage it.

    The idea that stand-up is somehow prohibited from being anything but a series of glorified knock-knock jokes is absurd. There is nothing about stand-up as a medium that forces that to be true.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    Stand-up, like all forms of comedy, is what the performer/writer makes it.
    We make stand-up comedy, then stand-up comedy makes us.

    Just as we make our tools, and our tools make us.

    But what do they make us?

    Print makes us literate individuals, while the phone, TV and the internet make us an etribe in the global village.

    So stand-up comedy is the fast food of comedy - it distracts us for a moment but fails to nourish us.

  7. #57
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post

    So stand-up comedy is the fast food of comedy - it distracts us for a moment but fails to nourish us.
    Incorrect. It is the purest form of comedy. It requires no pretenses, as a movie or TV show do. They must make a universe around their jokes, create falsities and non-real situations in which they make sense. Stand-up has no such compunctions and isn't afforded time to build some alternate reality. Stand-up (well, good stand-up) is the non-fiction of comedy. It's more honest than any movie or TV show or novel ever could be. It's the world as it literally exists filtered into a comedic lens. No props. No one to play off of. For most comedians, no relying on someone falling over or farting.

    I don't know what comedians/specials you've actually watched/listened to, but I have to imagine they're shitty ones.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  8. #58
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    I like quite a few, for some reason one of the ones who comes to mind is Eddie Izzard:









    But I also enjoy George Carlin, Ricky Gervais etc....
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    My favourite comedian was Ricky Gervais, before he was corrupted by American money and American celebrity.

    Ricky was a genuine comedic talent before he sold out to American money, American bad taste, and American celebrity.
    Wow. What a loser.
    America has such power to ruin men's souls.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #60
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    I love Edie Izard!

    Also ck Luis or Luis ck I always mix it up.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

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