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The Handmaid's Tale

iwakar

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How many of you are watching? Have you seen the latest episode?

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anticlimatic

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I think I made it 30 minutes through episode one before the absolutely absurd premise of the show began making me throw up in my mouth a little (ok, a lot). Is this seriously how feminists see religion, and what they are afraid of happening in the future? I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
 

iwakar

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I think I made it 30 minutes through episode one before the absolutely absurd premise of the show began making me throw up in my mouth a little (ok, a lot). Is this seriously how feminists see religion, and what they are afraid of happening in the future? I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Are you referring to feminists of today, or the feminists of 32 years ago when this story was written?
 

ceecee

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I read the book years ago and saw the original film. While it's not a likely scenario, the current political climate is causing the series to be taken down a road I don't really want to go - some discussions and reviews and projections aren't helping. This has no bearing on it being good or not. From everything I've read it's excellent.
 

ceecee

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I think I made it 30 minutes through episode one before the absolutely absurd premise of the show began making me throw up in my mouth a little (ok, a lot). Is this seriously how feminists see religion, and what they are afraid of happening in the future? I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

You're that threatened by a Hulu series? What a crybaby.
 

Totenkindly

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Got the first Season on Bluray yesterday, watched the pilot today.

The production quality is excellent; it's decently written; the acting is good. I'm not sure how realistic the premise is all things considered, I need to see more of the backstory unfold. I swear I have seen the road on that opening car chase in another movie/show before. (Funny how that happens -- like the opening building on the v-block corner in Anon just premiering on Netflix I think is the hotel from John Wick...)

I mean, this book was written in the 80's. Which makes it kind of interesting to see what's happened in the intervening few decades.

I have the same bad skin-crawling response I had trying to watch the documentary "Jesus Camp" (where I've only gotten 20 minutes in so far and still haven't gone back to finish). In some ways, it is just too close to home for me. The religious groups I was part of for years weren't so OPENLY controlling, but they were very controlling from the "soft" end of things and it can feel like captivity in the sense if you leave the faith you lose everyone you know, and anything you do or so that goes against the accepted doctrines makes you a backslidden outsider... so your ideas and presence are dismissed. People are always watching and waiting to pick at the ways you deviate. You construct one persona for interacting with church people and are careful what you reveal about yourself elsewhere. I guess it fucked me up more than I realized at the time. I still can't walk into a non-liberal American protestant church without feeling my skin crawl and needing to leave.

[And this IS relevant today, with Trump in office, because he dragged the whole Family Research Council and other Christian extremists in with him and are handing them executive orders and laws. We've been seeing what they're attempting to do over the last year. Mostly it's the judicial system that has been stepping in to block some of this, but they're playing all the cards they've been holding since the 80's; these are the same guys. I don't think it will ever go as far as Gilead, but there is an attempt to definitely rewrite American culture into a more conservative Christian society "to restore America to what God wants" and block a lot of types of people they don't like from living freely in the culture.]

I get that the show has additional concerns -- I guess environmental problems have resulted in a steep birth rate decline, giving some impetus to setting up a way to promulgate the species. When human beings feel their survival is on the line, they go into survival mode and systems of control being much stronger as a way to stay alive. At least within the context of the show, I get the feelings of paranoia and how everything works together to control the people within... including normalizing the experience. Those who were adults will slowly forget because if they don't, they can't survive; and the children adjust to survive whatever life throws at them and they don't have adult memories of the World Before. it's just amazing though how the suggestion of monitoring is enough to quell much rebellious behavior; like with terrorism, you do not have to actually actively and openly monitor, you just monitor enough so that no one knows when they are being monitored, and everyone becomes isolated and distrustful of everyone else. They are in prisons by choice, out of fear.

(Which is what makes the end of the first episode so good, where a few people finally take some risks.)

The other thing is how unhappy all the women are in the system regardless of where they are positioned, except for the stellar Ann Dowd. Even the woman of the house is upset at the arrangement of Offred being her surrogate with her husband. Sometimes it seems like even some of the men aren't happy either, although mostly in the opener we're introduced to female characters. The believability of the show I guess will be more determined once I hear its back story and ongoing pressing concerns (although I'm aware of a bit of what was in the source book).
 

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Finished episode s01e03 last night.

I was really pissed off by the end of the episode... but I think that was the point. f*ck those guys.
 

Totenkindly

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Episode s01e04....

Aside from Serena Joy's insane amount of vindictiveness (it was a bit over the top), there's kind of a jawdropper around the 19 minute mark that is a reminder of how much has been normalized... since the incident is insane but in that insane world it makes a decent amount of sense. There's also backstory on what happened with Moira (which is a great moment) and an admission of what happened with the last Offred. Despite Serena Joy being a tightly wound nut, there's a scene with her and Fred (her husband) that gives them both some more nuance and maybe gives Serena Joy a bit more depth -- people can be mean when they are fearful or desperate and not in control of their lives.

What elevates the series is just the artistry and production quality. There is a scene where Offred is finally allowed to go back outside after being stuck in her room for two weeks and despite the fact it is pouring rain outside, the scene is transcendent, an epiphany, just by how it's shot -- a bit slowed down, the colors vibrant, the camera spinning euphorically into the sky, the rain drops slowly pelting down and bouncing ecstatically off the umbrellas. it's a lovely sequence, visually exhilarating, and reflects the POV / emotional state of Offred... The series really thinks about how to craft certain scenes and gets great mileage out of potentially throwaway moments. It isn't afraid to take its time on stuff like that.

A friend complained about how Elisabeth Moss looks a bit weird to him. Well, yes, there's something unconventional about the angles of her face or the wideness of her forehead or the spacing of her eyes. But welcome to the real world. We are not all cookie cutter images of conventional beauty, we're all unique. It makes her, the face of the series, distinctive. And it's not always the appearance -- the reality is that, in character, she's a handmaiden because she is fertile and in terms of acting, Moss is nailing this role. She is beautifully expressive in face and body; she embodies the character. She can change emotional states when needed on a dime (like the scene in the subway). It's like Even Rachel Wood on Westworld, who can play all the aspects of Dolores/Wyatt convincingly and shift gears with small efficient deliveries or movements. They are just really good at what they do.
 

Totenkindly

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episode s01e05 ....

Stellar episode (though not quite done viewing yet). First one of the series that made me cry... basically flashing back to June's relationship with Luke and how it started. They have such great chemistry, it actually all feels like two very real people, their falling in love captured on film. Palpable attraction, and ... well, just amazing acting on both their parts.

Then it's contrasted with what her life has become now, and it's all very tragic. "Better doesn't mean better for everyone. Some people are always worse off." The two men in her life (Fred and Nick) are compared and contrasted heavily in this episode, also compared to Luke, and the philosophies they represent are exposed visibly in this episode. Maybe Fred has treated her kindly and even done things for her against the rules, he seems warmed up to her.... but in the end it doesn't change what he represents and his overriding philosophy.
 

Totenkindly

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episode 06-07

Not going to talk much about these since there are some plot twists that you just need to hit cold. But hooray for backstory / flashbacks! I do appreciate the brutality of much of the action. The show remains tasteful in the visuals in general with everything that typically goes down, but they don't have any compunctions about what happens really. Some of it can be quick, cold, brutal, etc.

episode 08

Here's why these utopian societies don't work if the rules are too stringent: Those with power don't want to change, so they continue to indulge. THose without power are crushed by the rules, those with power continue to indulge, and it just all continues regardless. This episode is not SURPRISING in the least, although the audacity might feel staggering. Humans are humans, they have certain desires, and if you suppress your primal urges, either you crack or you create an "allowable" outlet for those who have enough power to escape consequences. Others also indulge in their own pursuits (as we are seeing with June) but are in grave danger if they are caught -- they will be the scapegoats used to prove "the system is working to suppress immorality" while it continue unabated for those with enough power who indulge through the "allowable" channels.

That being said, there's some hints at crazy shit going on here. Almost more something you'd see on AHS. Also, all the women are enslaved, even the ones with some freedoms.

episode 9

One things I love about the series is that often you can see where a particular plot point will resolve sensibly, and it actually will end up going that way -- but the entire journey to reach that end, it's not clear IF it will. There's always a sense of pregnant possibility for things going in other directions. This basically engages the viewer to imagine where things are going and provides fulfillment in that you anticipate what will happen and feel good about being right but it still keeps you on your toes since it's not a totally clear thing.

There are also moral dilemmas for the protagonists. June has to do something in this episode that she is entirely conflicted about. And I'm not even clear exactly what I would have done either. If you love your friend, what do you recommend she do? What a fucking mess.

Serena Joy is still a bitch on many levels but the season offers her more context and nuance, there are some good things about her / sensitive things, and you can sense her own life disappointments and see when she's trying to be more. She's as trapped as everyone else and isn't necessarily happy, although she continues to wield power to serve herself mostly... it's just that as a woman and the wife of the house, she really doesn't possess as much power as it seems she would. Also, Aunt Lydia is a part Ann Dowd has done before, and she's exceedingly good at showing matronly concern while brutalizing others; so she's also a bit complex. She abuses others with impunity if they flout the system, yet you can tell she views herself as caring about the girls under her care. it's her values system that is fucked up. You could see her running a brothel or some other such thing... and I suppose actually that is what she is doing here. Faint hints of Zidler from Moulin Rouge (although he's more sympathetic); you are basically running a business and have to fulfill a goal, but trying to care for the people under her so they can reach that goal.

---

Nick is kind of hot, in that broody quiet way. And those eyebrows.

This is definitely a female centric show. Despite men having the power, they are always shown from the female perspective (you can detect whiffs of Lifetime channel). Having one episode essentially dedicated to a man was kind of an odd one out. But as opposed to malecentric shows, the plot (while there is one) is more about women and how they are positioned with others in their lives, that kind of internal relating drama.

June has a number of "men" in her life, all her relationships are different, and you see how she works each one of them without having any direct power in the relationship. This is most obvious with Commander Waterford; June is basically able to "soft manipulate" him by planting ideas in his head and making him think he came up with them, and by reflecting back to him a mirror of himself -- the self he wants to see himself as. [I really love it when he thinks he has been crafty enough to recognize how she has been manipulating him but ends up being entirely wrong about her goal. Wow.] It's a time-treasured tool used by women for a long time (since western culture often has granted men more overt power). But she can also be demanding with men she wants to actually build relationships with. There is that conversation with Nick at end of episode 8 (?) where she just needed to stop talking, because it's clear that Nick cannot find words and it's too much for him -- dealing with his feelings in that moment -- so he gives her the only thing he can at the time and it's not good enough. But the exchange is very relatable.

Waterford is dual-layered as well. In some ways he seems kind and wanting to offer June some luxuries, seeing her as more than a handmaiden. However, what that "more" actually is (you figure out eventually) is still an object to hang on his arm to make him feel good about what a great person is OR to win prestige from others. He's still ultimately self-focused and despite allowing her exceptions from the system is still keeping her trapped in the system under his own thumb. He cares about her more like one would care for a well-liked pet.
 

Totenkindly

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episode 10 - season finale

Pretty great episode, and also stayed on target rather than being too over the top. There will be hell to pay for what went down here, but for the moment the handmaids are united. Also revealed are the contents of the mysterious package, and there's a pretty ruthless scene between Serena Joy and June. Never has profanity been used so effectively... shit.

Also, believe it not, something GOOD happens in this episode. Something heartbreakingly touching. It's good because a show like this needs a positive moment every so often to avoid being too dark.

The episode ends where I think the book ends. Next season the show is on its own.
 

Totenkindly

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Found some streaming sites with Season 2, so...

Season 2 Episode 1

The aftermath of what went down in Season 1 finale picks up here, although the opening gambit might actually do the opposite of what they intended. However, they make up for that with the things that happen next.



Serena Joy is not winning any points, despite any sympathy she might have garnered from Season 1 -- I think her balance is pretty much in the red. She's everything June said at this point.

Finally putting Ann Down and Elizabeth Moss in the same scenes more, here.... they're both great actresses and have some of the most headstrong characters on the series. I'd like to see more of this.

They are off-book now, although you can't really tell... the episode moves seamlessly from the prior season and onwards although I have no idea where it's going now.

More backstory, around the time of the coup. It was eerie to watch; obviously i have not lived through a government coup, but the look on June and Luke's faces was very much what I remember when 9/11 happened and my ex and I had no idea what was coming next, and we had two young kids at that point who we had to guard and explain the situation to. It was a completely WTF and terrifying moment.

The last few minutes of this episode reinforce how much I love it. June is a real badass... and they never flinch from showing ramifications to certain acts. I remember when I got a few things done there, so this was excruciating. Moss really is quite a versatile actress.
 

Totenkindly

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Season 2 Episode 2

I wasn't sure how I felt about this episode at first. It scanned as a little more on the nose politically than prior episodes, but that's also because (1) we're off book and (2) it takes place pretty much entirely out of the ongoing setting from first season, so it feels different just by its nature. It's not to say it was bad, but there's some come-uppance and/or hopeful moments involved here which usually hasn't happened on this show where all the main heroes are typically screwed underneath a regime they have only limited power within.

One remarkable thing is a total of three guest stars for this episode where there aren't usually any -- at least to me, they were very famous faces. Only one will really possibly be recurring but... interesting. There's some harrowing moments, the main one involving an airport.



There's also the setting where June finds herself in the bulk of this episode, and how horrific just finding a few particular lost pieces of apparel can be.When this show is good, it says a ton without any need for dialogue -- the visuals speak for themselves. I do love how they let June be headstrong and sometimes almost plunging into "fuck you" territory that would just get her into a lot of trouble, yet she's also not stupid and if you give her space and a moment to think through it, she'll realize what she needs to do. At least one of the other characters recognizes this in her and is willing to give her that space rather than removing her volition.


EDIT: Also... the role of religion...

I like how the show is now trying to restore some distinction between "regular Christianity" and the twisted version being utilized by the Sons of Jacob to justify their politics. It would be easy to confuse the two. But we have seen nuns in the show who are more like freedom fighters, how some priests have been murdered by Sons of Jacob because they tried to stand against them, and even it seems June still holds some kind of Christian-like religious beliefs that she can still embrace while outright loathing the faith practices of the Sons of Jacob.

margaret Atwood, the author of the book (which i have not read), I think commented about the Quakers in particular -- about how they basically created their own underground railroad to smuggle handmaidens out of Gilead because it's the kind of thing that Quakers have done IRL in various places. I appreciate the attempts to distinguish different flavors of different faith practices.
 

SurrealisticSlumbers

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So far in Season 2 we have been delivered some major truth bombs about characters' pasts. The themes that have been touched on are pretty complex. I like the way in which June's own relationships have been revealed. Makes her seem more human/flawed.



One thing that still bugs me is this: how were any of these people blindsided by the government takeover, you know? All these neon signs were there - June having her job taken (along with all the other female employees), having her bank account drained, needing Luke's signature to get birth control pills, and it was all some big surprise when the forces of Gilead took over Washington? C'mon.



Oh, and as an aside, I like how the cast is a mix of nationalities - Max Minghella (Nick), Joseph Fiennes (Commander Waterford), and OT Fagbenle (Luke) are all Brits. And isn't Yvonne Strahovski Australian?

Characters we REALLY need more of a backstory on are Nick (the man's an enigma) and - yes - Aunt Lydia. In the case of the latter, I'd just like to get a more nuanced picture of who she is. I've spent the last two seasons with the strong desire to see her die a very slow, painful death at the hands of her victims. Torturing these other women comes absolutely natural to her. I'd like to know if there is a reason for it. I picture some awful abuse in Aunt Lydia's childhood - maybe molestation or sexual assault. She most likely comes from the same Calvinist religious background as the higher-ups in Gilead - all the "aunts" wield enormous authority, so you know they were cherry-picked. But the viewer reserves a special kind of hatred for Aunt Lydia. Yes, it's shitty what the commanders and their wives are doing to these handmaids, forcing them to be basically concubines in their homes, and stripping them of their very identities, so that they become mere extensions of the commanders whose children they are forced to bear. The indignities of rape and forced pregnancy, aided and abetted by the wives, as well as the inability to have any freedoms in the most basic sense, are terrible all on their own. Don't get me wrong. But it is Aunt Lydia's despicable, graphic acts of violence towards the handmaids that affix the well-deserved TV-MA rating to the show. Some of the things she has done have been enough to make me turn my head away from the screen. Just when you don't think she could get any more sadistic, cold and sociopathic, she goes there. Ann Dowd is, I'm sure, a lovely woman irl, but wow.
 

Totenkindly

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One thing that still bugs me is this: how were any of these people blindsided by the government takeover, you know? All these neon signs were there - June having her job taken (along with all the other female employees), having her bank account drained, needing Luke's signature to get birth control pills, and it was all some big surprise when the forces of Gilead took over Washington? C'mon.

Considering the crap that's going down in the USA today, I find it less and less surprising.

People keep hoping things will somehow change for the better / not get that bad, and even if they want to stop things... well, they just don't know how. There is a feeling of powerlessness to stop anything because no one with power seems capable of doing anything. It takes a lot of practical know-to to actually intervene.

... I am not caught up on this season, so I'm not reading the rest until I see a few more episodes.

I just finished episode 4 of season 2 (but I think they have aired 9 episodes so far). I kinda figured this would all happen and things would go that way.

The show is so beautifully acted and shot, that I'm having trouble watching it. I really really like it, but it's getting too close to home and also just gets so darned depressing. Kinda like trying to take pleasure in Orwell's 1984 or something. Crushing.

Still very impressed with Moss and her nuances, she makes it look so effortless. I also appreciate how June is a flawed narrator. She might be the "hero" but she's had times in her life where she has not acted heroically and/or is culpable... and the show is willing to either highlight that or dig into it to explore how that impacts her now.
 

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One thing that still bugs me is this: how were any of these people blindsided by the government takeover, you know? All these neon signs were there - June having her job taken (along with all the other female employees), having her bank account drained, needing Luke's signature to get birth control pills, and it was all some big surprise when the forces of Gilead took over Washington? C'mon.
Agreed. It's the classic case of frogs in the pot of water. Same happened with Jews in Nazi Germany. Some saw the writing on the wall and fled in time, but many did not, perhaps likewise feeling things wouldn't go from bad to worse.

Note: I have not seen any of the new serial version of this, though I have read the book and seen the old movie version.
 

Totenkindly

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Only halfway through s2e5 at the moment...

... still trying to figure out where "Mrs. Waterford" is going as a character. She's kind of obnoxious, kind of sympathetic (well, a twinge). But there are signs her composure and support for Gilead might break. Like on some deep level she experiences guilt for what she's doing to other women... and also, she doesn't seem happy herself, as she is marginalized herself despite her position simply because of her gender and increasing seems to perceive she has lost something as well within the new order. She lost her career; her husband is preoccupied and she's without recourse; and while she liked to respond to June with matched aggression, that lack of fire is now seeming to frustrate her as well... like she realizes she had broken something and/or something is not right.

Aunt Lydia is the only "main" female character that seems content with the system.

episode 6... way too on the nose to feel much sympathy



Still finding the season very well done... but it's too depressing a lot of time and difficult to watch. Part of it is again my past; I have a hard time sitting through the religious sections. it is an environment I grew up in and now I have a lot of trouble when people use religious speak and Bible preaching in the show, because I actually experienced an environment very much like this at least socially. I have bad flashbacks reliving it now.
 

Totenkindly

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Finished episode 2se8.

There's more times this season where the series feels like it's veering into soap opera at times, or is a little too on the nose. And occasionally there's a plot twist I find a bit unbelievable. At the same time, I still love the acting, the production quality, and the willingness of the directing staff and editors to allow scenes to "breathe." There's a lot of lingering shots meant to capture emotional states and often those moments are the most powerful.

I think definitely Serena's view of life in Gilead is changing after the experiences of this season. Was that what she really wanted when she imagined her spiritual Utopia? Did she believe she'd manage to have power within the system after systematically removing female authority? Yes, she has some. But not as much as she'd hoped, and she's been bumping up against the limits.

It would be nice to view this as fanciful, but I've been part of religious culture here in the states that is like this... and, like with Angela's situation, would believe that it's more important for your baby to die than bring in a doctor who will violate the spiritual tenets "God" has laid down for you. This is not fantasy. This actually exists. They are fully aware of what can happen but consciously choose to "honor god" in their view over the life of those in their care, when necessary. Or would allow other harm to fall, because serving God and upholding his tenets is the highest priority.

With Nick and with Eden:



Anyway, there should be no illusions left after this episode for Serena about the role of women in Gilead.
 
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