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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Default Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi

    I didn't see a thread for this yet. I guess I should dump in all the prerequisite stuff?

    Teaser Trailer 1


    poster:
    large format:
    https://milnersblog.files.wordpress....ar-wars-hd.jpg

    small format:


    Coming out December 2017.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Anyway to more interesting stuff... Luke's last line of the trailer...

    '''Time for the Jedi to End''': Ultimate '''Star Wars''' Fans Decode '''The Last Jedi''' Trailer

    ... where Luke says basically "Everything that has a beginning has an end, Rey..."

    Various opinions at cosplay event:
    —”I really think that they mean they’re going to have new form of Force user. Jedi and Sith are going to have to go away.”
    —”I think he means the Jedi that were before have made many mistakes and their failures have led to this point”
    —”I think it’s something new and I think Rey is part of that something new.”
    —”I don’t think it means anything good by it, honestly.”

    I like the concept about the Jedi and Sith perhaps moving on. There aren't many Jedi at this time remaining, anyway... only two that we know of? Maybe three, if Kylo Ren can be redeemed?

    But what folks don't get (what they get hung up on) -- the Jedi and Sith are not inherent parts of the Force, they are just particular factions rooted in particular times and places that each have had an influential perspective on the Force and how it can be used.

    It's like having an opinion on how energy can be used, or technology can be used, etc. It says nothing about the energy or the technology, it's just that the faction has a perspective on how to best use it, experience it, wield it.

    The Sith are actually an ancient proud race with a particular and obvious genetic heritage and appearance, although the Empire kind of absconded with the term "Sith Lord" to describe themselves since the force wielders of the Empire worked with the Sith. I might off a bit in the specifics, but basically again the "Sith" are anchored in a particular place, time, and perspective.

    The Jedi are also a faction of Force users who perceived the force in another way and used it to establish their own umbrella of power. Their goals often opposed the Sith.

    It was easy to view them as universal Good/Evil but that's not really the case.

    "SWTOR: Fallen Empire" stuff was cool because it introduced a third faction that approached the Force yet differently, something that can be channeled via one's sense of duty and discipline. There are probably other perspectives on the Force as well.

    Maybe that is what we will see this Christmas, with the release of The Last Jedi. The Force isn't going away, but the faction known as The Jedi might need to end so that Rey can be freed to pursue whatever her vision is for her life and her connection with the Force. At least, that would be an interesting angle.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Also, I'm wondering if they will follow up on the reverse parallel with Kylo Ren.

    What we normally see is the fall of someone out of grace (AKA Anakin skywalker). We see someone who starts good, but then is seduced by darkness (The Dark Side here), and slowly, despite trying to fight it, they slide downwards.

    Kylo in SW VII was kind of the opposite. We see a guy who abandoned the Jedi / Luke's enclave for power (?). And he seems fixated on somehow honoring the memory of Darth Vader -- ancestor worship. He tried to embrace the darker teachers, and rage, etc. And he has found some degree of power.

    But he comes across as a poser. Now he seems to struggle with the LIGHT Side and its temptations. He wants to be a Sith, and is trying to stay a Sith, but the Light is calling to him and seducing him. He tries to silence it in SW VII by one of the movie's major plot twists, hoping it will silence the voice in his head forever, leaving him to darkness... but it doesn't seem to work. He is still tormented.

    (Rey hears this call too -- when Kylo tries to bring her on as his apprentice -- she steadies herself, looks within, embraces the light call, and rejects him.)

    It was interesting, but I wonder if it will be explicitly followed up on.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Markov's your dad now Anaximander's Avatar
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    is that Rogue One music by Giacchino in the trailer? lol.

    Meh. It didn't dazzle me. I suppose my expectations are low these days. Force Awakens was good, but there was...something missing. I'm more excited to see what they do with future anthology films.

    I'm sure people will be analyzing the shit out of this trailer and coming up with a kajillion fan theories. Snoke is, like, totally Dexter Jettser and this whole thing is a plot to get his chain of diners established across the galaxy. Kylo only thinks he is training to be a sith, when in fact he is meant to be regional manager for the outer rim diners. Rey is Obi-Wan's barber's granddaughter who also happened to be best friends with Ahsoka's twin sister who we conveniently never heard of until now.

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    Markov's your dad now Anaximander's Avatar
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    I like the idea of Grey Jedi, aka Jedi who maneuvered somewhat independently from the influence of the Jedi Council. I guess any Jedi in the era of episode 8 will technically be a grey jedi.

    You have to consider the sith and jedi are essentially dead sects by this point, since the line of succession has been broken and the majority of the ancient knowledge probably lost. So Luke might be a spiritual successor, but his Jedi Order is likely very different from the order of Obi-Wan and Yoda. And the sith are basically extinct with the rule of two disrupted and ended, with Kylo ren as a fanboy trying to resurrect something he probably has scattered knowledge of, at best. I suspect Snoke is not a sith, but merely a member of some other darkside sect who sees Ren as a useful pawn. Maybe he was even one of the Emperor's Dark Side practitioners (an inquisitor?) at one point, but likely would have had extremely limited access to any sith teachings in accordance with the rule of two (Legends argues Maul wasn't even a true sith, as Palpatine's master was alive right up to events in TPM)--this might make sense as you see Maul as a very gifted swordsman, yet using very little of the higher Sith powers (i.e. force lightning)

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    I think Finn is a child of the force. But I think rewrites/reshoots in TFA kind of downplayed this. We have to consider Rey might turn to the darkside (though I doubt it). And here I am, caught up in the speculation cycle right after teasing about fans and their endless theories.

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    Luke is probably reluctant to teach Rey or start an organized movement against the First Order. After starting his own academy and watching his pupil rebel, he understands firsthand how the Light Side instigates pushback from the Dark Side. Furthermore, the prophecy he apparently fulfilled focused on balance, so whatever education he instills in Rey will probably have more nuance and flexibility than what he taught his old students. That much is explicit. "Grey Jedi" kinds of teachings would also serve as a more preventative solution to the central conflict.

    Unanswered questions remain, though. If the object is simple balance, why use more red imagery than in previous installments? The title is red and even that poster gives heavy emphasis to Dark Side symbols. Maybe Luke will give Rey an even more saturated crash course on the Dark Side than what he learned on Dagobah etc.. Maybe we'll get a lot of insight into what Snoke is all about and/or drama involving Ren. Maybe Rey will find even more temptation in the Dark Side than Luke did. Maybe more tragedy. Luke might die. Maybe all of the above.

    If this trilogy follows the pattern of episodes 4-6, then this movie will use archetypes relating to hermits, retreat, self-reflection, preparation, and a good demonstration that Rey is capable of handling the final conflict in episode 9. Relatively speaking, Luke is to Rey what Yoda is to Luke. The aspects of self-reflection may also reveal Rey's origins. Seeing how powerful Rey has become in such a short span of time, she may prove her worth by pulling off something even more spectacular than raising an x-wing from swamp water. The audience needs more explanation for more crazy stunts to gain public approval, IMO.

    Just my 2 cents.
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    I have a feeling that the title "The Last Jedi" has overlapping meanings and that Luke is likely to die here. It didn't take long before Obi-Wan bit the bullet. The Star Wars franchise doesn't shy away from killing off Jedi masters. Furthermore, this trilogy already borrows heavily from its predecessors.
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    Alternatively:



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    Quote Originally Posted by Anaximander View Post
    is that Rogue One music by Giacchino in the trailer? lol.

    Meh. It didn't dazzle me.
    It was just a "teaser" so that's all it did... a drop of water on the tongue. It wasn't really supposed to be a 'real' trailer from my perspective. So it did meet that bar. I would expect a true trailer to have more substance.

    I suppose my expectations are low these days. Force Awakens was good, but there was...something missing. I'm more excited to see what they do with future anthology films.
    I liked TFA a lot on first viewing, but I think some of that was "Hell, yeah -- finally an ACTUAL MOVIE with real acting and dialogue" after having had to sit through three crappy prequel movies that were barely tolerable if that.

    On second viewing and later, I didn't like it as much because then all of its deficiencies came into view. I can give it the most credence as a "transitional" movie that was meant mainly to (1) connect with the older fans, yes, we know Star Wars and can do a decent movie, and (2) draw in new/younger viewers who might not be as acquainted with the old movies. Unfortunately, there was too much shadowing of the original Star Wars for repeated viewings to hold up and I wish it had been more original.

    I've seen Rogue One twice now. While it isn't like a 5-star drama, it's actually crafted well for what it is -- a franchise movie that tells its own story rather than replicating another -- with all the right plot beats, humor, etc. It's basically on par with the best MCU movies, even if it has its own formula. They did do some last minute tinkering, but the tinkering included the Darth Vader scene, having them need to transmit out the coordinates (versus escaping with them, which would have seemed too unbelievable), the reopening with Jyn trying to escape from rescuers, and all that... pretty good changes.

    I'm sure people will be analyzing the shit out of this trailer and coming up with a kajillion fan theories. Snoke is, like, totally Dexter Jettser and this whole thing is a plot to get his chain of diners established across the galaxy. Kylo only thinks he is training to be a sith, when in fact he is meant to be regional manager for the outer rim diners. Rey is Obi-Wan's barber's granddaughter who also happened to be best friends with Ahsoka's twin sister who we conveniently never heard of until now.
    I don't even bother anymore.

    (1) the film will reveal whatever the film reveals, regardless of my guesses, and (2) I'd rather be surprised and enjoy the movie versus figuring it all out ahead of time, and (3) I don't want to be disappointed at what they don't do.

    I am expecting more from this movie than I did from TFA, since Johnson can write interesting scripts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Floki View Post
    I have a feeling that the title "The Last Jedi" has overlapping meanings and that Luke is likely to die here. It didn't take long before Obi-Wan bit the bullet. The Star Wars franchise doesn't shy away from killing off Jedi masters. Furthermore, this trilogy already borrows heavily from its predecessors.
    Yeah the passing of the torch. The old must step aside so that the new can take place; it's not just the cycle of life, but it's sometimes necessary because the old order has to be eradicated completely, including even the ones who are tried to do the right thing... their time is passed, that framework must be abolished completely if the new is to prosper. (The "V for Vendetta" graphic novel captured it poetically.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Floki View Post
    If this trilogy follows the pattern of episodes 4-6, then this movie will use archetypes relating to hermits, retreat, self-reflection, preparation, and a good demonstration that Rey is capable of handling the final conflict in episode 9. Relatively speaking, Luke is to Rey what Yoda is to Luke. The aspects of self-reflection may also reveal Rey's origins. Seeing how powerful Rey has become in such a short span of time, she may prove her worth by pulling off something even more spectacular than raising an x-wing from swamp water. The audience needs more explanation for more crazy stunts to gain public approval, IMO.
    It seems like she basically already had a very deep well of power, but someone had stuck a "block" in her mind so that she could not access the Force. However, it weakened over time and when Kylo mucked around in her head, he accidentally removed the block.

    But yeah, it needs explanation. I do like that her fighting style wasn't so great in the first movie. She was basically doing staff maneuvers with a 1H saber. The weirdness of that threw off Kylo, plus he was badly wounded and hadn't actually been challenged by someone who was a 'force peer" for years. So I could buy in that surprise matchup that she could best him momentarily. Her fighting technique needs a lot of work for another matchup. But she does seem to have access to raw power and we need to understand why.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft
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