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Motorcycles

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Oberon

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I can say with some confidence that if you wreck while pushing a modern sportbike near its limits on public roads, the primary purpose of your helmet is to ensure that when your head is found, it will be readily identifiable.
 

Jack Flak

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I can say with some confidence that if you wreck while pushing a modern sportbike near its limits on public roads, the primary purpose of your helmet is to ensure that when your head is found, it will be readily identifiable.
The same holds true for car bodies as helmets if we're really talking limits.
 

spirilis

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Motorcycle helmet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Standards testing

Most motorcycle helmet standards use impacts at speeds between 4–7 m/s (9–16 mph). At first glance, this is confusing given that motorcyclists frequently ride at speeds higher than 20 m/s (45 mph). This confusion is relieved by understanding that the perpendicular impact speed of the helmet is usually not the same as the road speed of the motor cycle and that the severity of the impact is determined not only by the speed of the head but also by the nature of the surface it hits. For example, the surface of the road is almost parallel to the direction the motorcyclist moves in so only a small component of his velocity is directed perpendicular to the road while he is riding. Of course, other surfaces are perpendicular to the motorcyclist's velocity, such as trees, walls and the sides of other vehicles. The other vital factor in determining the severity of an impact is the nature of the surface struck. The sheet metal wall of a car door may bend inwards to a depth of 7.5–10 cm (3–4 inch) during a helmeted head impact, meaning that it generates more stopping distance for the rider's head than the helmet itself. So a perpendicular impact against a flat steel anvil at 5 m/s (11 mph) might be about as severe as a 30 m/s (67 mph) oblique impact against a concrete surface or a 30 m/s perpendicular impact against a sheet metal car door or windscreen. Overall, there is a very wide range of severity in the impacts that could conceivably happen in a motorcycle impact. Some of these are more severe than the impacts used in the standard tests and some are less so.

The speeds are chosen based on modern knowledge of the human tolerance for head impact, which is by no means complete. It is possible to deduce how well the 'perfect' helmet outlined in the Function section of this page would perform in an impact of a given severity. If currently available data suggest that the rider is unlikely to survive in such an impact, regardless of how well his helmet performs, then there is little point in demanding that helmets be optimized for this impact. On the other hand, if an impact is so mild that the rider is unlikely to be injured at all so long as he is wearing a helmet than that impact is not a demanding test. Modern standards setters choose the severity of the standard test impact to be somewhere between these two extremes, so that manufacturers are doing their best to protect the riders who can be helped by their helmet during a head impact.


^ the velocities cited there I saw elsewhere: http://www.bikersrights.com/statistics/goldstein/goldstein.html

So the tolerance is actually ~9-16MPH on the helmet itself, which means you're bound to be severely injured if you hit a surface perpendicular, but not nearly as bad if you're moving predominantly parallel to it (i.e. falling to the ground and sliding). In fact, assuming you never come perpendicular to any objects (and just slide), the actual speed might not matter much with a sliding impact. The rest of your gear might determine fatality moreso in that scenario.
 
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Oberon

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The same holds true for car bodies as helmets if we're really talking limits.

Oh, I don't know. Provided that you're strapped in, the airbag deploys, and you avoid major obstacles like bridge abutments and oncoming semis, your odds of survival are pretty good.

Admittedly, that's a great many caveats. Best to avoid the situation altogether.
 

Grayscale

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I can say with some confidence that if you wreck while pushing a modern sportbike near its limits on public roads, the primary purpose of your helmet is to ensure that when your head is found, it will be readily identifiable.

i disagree... statistics show that in about half of fatal motorcycle accidents a helmet wasnt worn. the common other contributors are speeding, drinking, and lack of proper training.

the majority of motorcycle accidents are not fatal, it really depends on the accident, though. the only major risks to someone who is wearing all of the proper gear is a high-side crash or being struck by another vehicle, everything else is quite survivable. most crashes are low-sides and as long as they are not run over by a car, then the friction created by sliding on the ground usually slows them down enough so that smacking into a divider isnt deadly if the rider isnt speeding excessively.

with that said, there is always guys like this one who crashes through taco bell at 150 mph... i guess the drive-thru wasnt going fast enough. basically, just dont act like a retard, like popping wheelies through rush hour wearing a t-shirt and jeans, you'll probably be okay, and on the safer side of the statistics.

snuffx-dot-com-tabo-bell-motorcycle-crash9.jpg
 
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Oberon

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i disagree... statistics show that in about half of fatal motorcycle accidents a helmet wasnt worn. the common other contributors are speeding, drinking, and lack of proper training.

...but our statements are not in opposition to one another. :huh:
 

Grayscale

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if im not mistaken, you are saying that a helmet will not make a difference in a high speed accident, i was pointing out that the correlation between fatal accidents and the rider not wearing a helmet would suggest otherwise.

there are also plenty of accidents in professional motorcycle racing where the participants dont get broken into hundreds of little bits. :D

if you hi-side at that speed, though, yeah, helmet is probably just a head bucket. :sick:

another big problem is motorist awareness. because most people who drive cars have never ridden a motorcycle, they dont "relate" to the visual and are actually less likely to notice them. thats when they pull out into an intersection and whammo, the rider takes a short flight over the hood. thats the sort of thing motorcycle riders have nightmares about.
 

kyuuei

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I've been scared of them for a great portion of my life, so I've made a personal goal to get one and overcome that fear of them by taking the time to learn and ride one.

So! I suppose after I buy my house that'll be my next financial investment.
 

Anja

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Hmm. I take issue with some of that, but I'm not quite in the mood for extensive research. Are you sure you're not talking about CPSC rated foam bicycle helmets instead of DOT approved motorcycle helmets?

We were active in ABATE (American Bikers Aimed Toward Education) for a number of years. And unless they are making motorcycle helmets differently those were a couple of facts that our lobbyists in Congress used to oppose a mandatory helmet law. It could have changed, Jack. I know there are strong arguments on both sides and I'm too lazy to go researching, too.

I think just leave it to the individual. Darwinism.
 

Jack Flak

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I'm almost always on the side of freedom. I don't believe helmet laws should be mandatory...But to say they probably won't save your ass if you wreck is taking it a bit far.
 

Anja

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I see some did thinking and research on this.

My point remains that a helmet could possibly save your head from severe injury but you probably won't be very happy with the state the rest of your body is in. And the speed does not have to be high at all.

Denim is worthless in the case of road rash at any significant speed at all. It'll shred in seconds and so will your dermis and epidermis and maybe a few muscles and tendons along with them. The effect is similar to third-degree burns. If the body area is large enough it can kill you. That's ignoring the bone breaks altogether.

Then there's that nasty little matter of crushing your neck bones. I don't think a bicycle helmet could do that. Maybe they design motorcyle helmets now that won't also.
 

Anja

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I see you just posted, Jack. I don't think I said that a helmet "won't save your ass."
 

Jack Flak

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Anja, it appears you have a gigantic bias because you're defending the right to not wear a helmet.

Imagine, if you will, being dropped upside-down from four feet straight onto your head. Rather be wearing a helmet? I would.
 

Anja

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Anja, it appears you have a gigantic bias because you're defending the right to not wear a helmet.

Imagine, if you will, being dropped upside-down from four feet straight onto your head. Rather be wearing a helmet? I would.

Nah, sorry. As usual I'm just not interested in arguing for entertainment.

Take it, leave it or put it on the back burner for consideration. . .
 

millerm277

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I'm not really talking about the bike itself so much as the way insurance works here. My ESTP boss just got licensed and has said it'd be cheaper for him to continue to drive his Suburban everywhere than to get a bike insured.

I don't think so....for minimum coverage on my bike for a 19 year old rider, it's $231 for the ENTIRE year. Even upping it to maximum everything, it still is under $1000 for the year. (Note....I ride a 28 year old bike, if you're riding a brand new Ducati or Hayabusa, your costs are probably going to be a lot higher...)

I can say with some confidence that if you wreck while pushing a modern sportbike near its limits on public roads, the primary purpose of your helmet is to ensure that when your head is found, it will be readily identifiable.

Yes and no. If you hit something, you're dead for sure. However, if the bike slides out from under you, and you are just sliding on the road, a helmet and good jacket give you a pretty good chance of walking away without serious injuries.
 

Grayscale

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this isnt related, but.

[youtube=_zwiO9ARXZs]fat man gets run over by car[/youtube]

cant... stop... laughing.

i am a terrible person.
 
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Oberon

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I'm almost always on the side of freedom. I don't believe helmet laws should be mandatory...But to say they probably won't save your ass if you wreck is taking it a bit far.

Depends on the wreck. If you just lay the bike down, that's one thing. Run into anything substantial at speed, though, and you're toast, helmet or not.
 

Pink Lime

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I'm kind of considering getting one sometime. Who rides here? What do you have?

......... Also, if I'm long distance traveling, I NEED music. Listening to music on a bike isn't really easy to pull off...

A little late to the thread but I ride. I currently have a kawasaki Zx-6R and a kawasaki ZX-10R. And I listen to music, gotta have music. I just bought an extra pair of headphones that I slipped into the helmet - they do the job just fine.
 
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