Superhero vs Superhero trend of 2016 (Choosing sides)

[bilbotook]

2016 seems like be the year of superhero battles. First Batman v Superman then Captain America: Civil War was announced. And then CBS decided to have a Flash vs Supergirl episode. Now season 2 of Daredevil decided to jump on the bandwagon with Daredevil vs The Punisher. But hey, I'm not complaining. Superhero showdowns are entertaining. So with all of these showdowns, we're forced to chose sides.

Batman vs Superman

Captain America vs Iron Man

Daredevil vs The Punisher

Flash vs Supergirl

Personally, I'm team Superman, Captain America, Daredevil, and Flash. Who's side have you taken this year. Please tell me so we can have like these nerdy debates

 

[Totenkindly]

Daredevil unfortunately didn't really win the Punisher fight.
He'd be dead if Frank had actually wanted to finish him off.

It was definitely the idealist vs realist fight, and so very rather brutal. Daredevil had fancier moves, whereas Frank's were more direct and designed to break/kill.

 

[bilbotook]

Daredevil unfortunately didn't really win the Punisher fight.
He'd be dead if Frank had actually wanted to finish him off.

It was definitely the idealist vs realist fight, and so very rather brutal. Daredevil had fancier moves, whereas Frank's were more direct and designed to break/kill.

So whose side were you on (that is if you had a side)?

 

[Cellmold]

Well superhero movies are the overall trend, although quite a few of them are following certain comic book arcs (infinite gauntlet for a lot of the Marvel ones etc......).

Also most of those superhero vs superhero battles are also from existing stories. Such as Civil War for captain America vs iron man and Batman vs Superman was a Frank Miller influence I think. Daredevil and punisher have always clashed idealogically.

I know that's not what you were after so allow me to give superficial answers:

Batman vs Superman = Superman if Bruce Whine hasn't had time to prepare something and work out a strategy.

Captain America vs Iron Man = I lean towards Iron Man because I now see Stark as Robert Downey Jr all the time rather than the boring arse he is in the comics and he gets the better lines in the Avengers movies.

Daredevil vs Punisher = Could go either way and often does. Leaning towards frank because of guns plus intent to kill and harm as [MENTION=7]Bellflower[/MENTION] pointed out.

Supergirl vs Flash = Flash. From what I've read he can fuck with time and do some ridiculous speed based attacks, not really a contest.

 

[Totenkindly]

So whose side were you on (that is if you had a side)?

I think any decent "hero vs hero" fight is a conflict between competing goods, not good vs evil. (Otherwise they wouldn't be heroes, right?) Such a conflict should actually be difficult to resolve/choose between one or the other. So my personal stance on ideology is far more in the middle with these conflicts.

With Castle vs Daredevil, I appreciate idealism but think it can be unrealistic (especially when Daredevil started sparing The Hand without recognizing they really are portrayed as steeped in evil without individual redemption). Castle's approach to regular criminals is more debatable; he was taking out gangs without opportunity for redemption, so I can see Daredevil being in conflict with that (and he's a great ironic figure -- the devil that is both about punishment and redemption) and yet innocent bystanders can be hurt just as his own family was and what if someone would have gone straight? The "crooks" here are just brutal humans, not ninja devotees of evil; I was more on Elektra's side in terms of how to deal with the Hand.

Cap vs Iron Man is similar to Bat vs Supes -- who watches the watchmen, who makes sure the heroes take responsibility for what they do. Does power need to be regulated? One of the better scenes in "Age of Ultron" is when the Hulk trashes a foreign city and Tony sees how they are viewed as the threat, rather than the villains they were hunting down. Captain America actually tends to be respectful of the rights of the common man and refuses to be subverted into power abuse, whereas Stark (pushing for regulation) has actually been more abusive of his power IMO even if he has accomplished good. That's the irony.

I don't really know much about the current Flash's ideals vs Supergirl's, although she comes off as naïve at least on the TV show.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I don't know, but I wish we were getting a Secret Wars series, complete with the origin of spidey's black suit/symbiote.

 

[Totenkindly]

I don't know, but I wish we were getting a Secret Wars series, complete with the origin of spidey's black suit/symbiote.

Yeah, I want to watch Colossus get a crush on the gorgeous healer who can't talk, so he can dump Kitty Pryde when he gets home and then Juggernaut can smack the crap out of him after Wolvie takes him to the bar to do it himself. (I really liked that run, honestly. Some classic, classic events....)


And then for really tacky subplots, at the end of Secret Wars 2 (spoiler)

the Marvel superhero crowd aborts the Beyonder. I'm still kinda like, "whut?!"
At least it won't happen in Texas.

 

[bilbotook]

I think any decent "hero vs hero" fight is a conflict between competing goods, not good vs evil. (Otherwise they wouldn't be heroes, right?) Such a conflict should actually be difficult to resolve/choose between one or the other. So my personal stance on ideology is far more in the middle with these conflicts.

With Castle vs Daredevil, I appreciate idealism but think it can be unrealistic (especially when Daredevil started sparing The Hand without recognizing they really are portrayed as steeped in evil without individual redemption). Castle's approach to regular criminals is more debatable; he was taking out gangs without opportunity for redemption, so I can see Daredevil being in conflict with that (and he's a great ironic figure -- the devil that is both about punishment and redemption) and yet innocent bystanders can be hurt just as his own family was and what if someone would have gone straight? The "crooks" here are just brutal humans, not ninja devotees of evil; I was more on Elektra's side in terms of how to deal with the Hand.

Cap vs Iron Man is similar to Bat vs Supes -- who watches the watchmen, who makes sure the heroes take responsibility for what they do. Does power need to be regulated? One of the better scenes in "Age of Ultron" is when the Hulk trashes a foreign city and Tony sees how they are viewed as the threat, rather than the villains they were hunting down. Captain America actually tends to be respectful of the rights of the common man and refuses to be subverted into power abuse, whereas Stark (pushing for regulation) has actually been more abusive of his power IMO even if he has accomplished good. That's the irony.

I don't really know much about the current Flash's ideals vs Supergirl's, although she comes off as naïve at least on the TV show.

I can see everyone's point for choosing Frank Castle and the efficiency of the way he does things seems so tempting. But, on the Devil's side of the picture, even the worst of people have even a slight possibility of changing to something better. And I don't believe it's right to just put out that light. Everyone and every criminal deserves a fair trial, then when proven guilty, they will serve a certain amount of time in jail based on how bad the crime was. The time in jail will keep them from doing bad things for a while and will give them time o rethink their life. If the change, great! That solved the problem. If they don't, they repeat the process again and again until they either die or going back to jail again and again gives them the message to change. That's the ideal justice system. Killing someone, that's not justice. That's revenge. Rage does not belong in court. Killing a criminal will do no good to anyone. So that's why I'm team Daredevil.

 

[Totenkindly]

I can see everyone's point for choosing Frank Castle and the efficiency of the way he does things seems so tempting. But, on the Devil's side of the picture, even the worst of people have even a slight possibility of changing to something better. And I don't believe it's right to just put out that light. Everyone and every criminal deserves a fair trial, then when proven guilty, they will serve a certain amount of time in jail based on how bad the crime was. The time in jail will keep them from doing bad things for a while and will give them time o rethink their life. If the change, great! That solved the problem. If they don't, they repeat the process again and again until they either die or going back to jail again and again gives them the message to change. That's the ideal justice system. Killing someone, that's not justice. That's revenge. Rage does not belong in court. Killing a criminal will do no good to anyone. So that's why I'm team Daredevil.

I think that works an approach on the table for regular criminals. Frank's approach not only avoids the redemptive element, but also doesn't consider the impact on bystanders nor the impact on his own soul... every person he kills impacts himself as well as them.

My issue was mainly trying to spare The Hand, since if you know the comic lore anyway, they're kind of beyond human morality unfortunately. They're not really humans to be rehabilitated nor kept in jail.

Still, I think in an actual fight, Frank showed he could have killed DD if he had chosen to. So he was the winner in a matchup.

 

[bilbotook]

I think that works an approach on the table for regular criminals. Frank's approach not only avoids the redemptive element, but also doesn't consider the impact on bystanders nor the impact on his own soul... every person he kills impacts himself as well as them.

My issue was mainly trying to spare The Hand, since if you know the comic lore anyway, they're kind of beyond human morality unfortunately. They're not really humans to be rehabilitated nor kept in jail.

Still, I think in an actual fight, Frank showed he could have killed DD if he had chosen to. So he was the winner in a matchup.

So, I guess I have one more question to ask you: Team SHIELD or Team Carter? For me, it's most DEFINITELY Team Carter

 

[Totenkindly]

So, I guess I have one more question to ask you: Team SHIELD or Team Carter? For me, it's most DEFINITELY Team Carter

I've never watched the TV show, so I have no way to respond to any of that.

 

[Riva]

There was no fight between Supergirl and Flash. It was an instant friendship and the cutest super hero friendship I've seen. If they fight, Flash would win.

Superman Vs Batman was unexpectedly good. I would that's my favourite.

The Punisher and Daredevil weren't trying to kill each other. DD was merely trying to stop the Punisher. If they fought the Punisher would definitely win because he is a killer and my goodness he can fight. I never expected the Punisher to be cool. I thought he was there to merely satisfy the gun fantasy of men but I realized how wrong I was. Daredevil is a brilliant show anyway.

 

[bilbotook]

I've never watched the TV show, so I have no way to respond to any of that.

Let me now warn you AGAINST watching Agents of S.H.E.I.L.D. It's absolute nonsense. Though Agent Carter is great. I just wish it would appear on Netflix already

 

[bilbotook]

There was no fight between Supergirl and Flash. It was an instant friendship and the cutest super hero friendship I've seen. If they fight, Flash would win.

Superman Vs Batman was unexpectedly good. I would that's my favourite.

The Punisher and Daredevil weren't trying to kill each other. DD was merely trying to stop the Punisher. If they fought the Punisher would definitely win because he is a killer and my goodness he can fight. I never expected the Punisher to be cool. I thought he was there to merely satisfy the gun fantasy of men but I realized how wrong I was. Daredevil is a brilliant show anyway.

1. Oh. I guess I never really did watch that crossover. The trailer showed them being competitive so I just kind of put two and two together.

2. Cool

3. While Daredevil and Punisher weren't trying to kill each other and never did get that big throw down. There was still enough beef between them to see a sort of rivalry going on. They are two superheroes who had opposing ideals that drew a wedge between them and they had screen time together; that makes it eligible to fit with the Superhero vs Superhero trend.

 

[laterlazer]

I heard about the Flash/Supergirl crossover but I didn't see it? I thought it hadn't happened yet. Was it shown on Supergirl the show cos I watch Flash online and idk how I missed it.
Anyway generally not the biggest fan of DC heroes but: Batman > Superman for me. Iron Man > Capt Am. Daredevil = Punisher cos I haven't watched or read anything with either woops. Flash > Supergirl.
Idk I'm not a fan of 'perfect' heroes. The idea of Superman and consequently Supergirl irks me. Really? They have pretty much every ability and can only be stopped by Kryptonite?
And Captain America never appealed to me, maybe it's the patriotism lol.