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Thread: Who sucks?

  1. #401
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    I guess we just have very different standards for judging music. There's nothing special, different, creative, complex, unique about most pop music. It's made by big corporations to make money off of 12 year old girls with a big allowance.

    Walk into any jazz music club, and you will find more musical talent there than in Toxic and Like A Virgin. The videos I posted take actual musical talent to play, something these pop artists don't have.
    Being good at your instrument doesn't make you a great musician. Not in any way shape or form. Look, I enjoy jazz. I downloaded an Alice Coltrane album yesterday, for Christ's sake. But intricate, technically sound music is only one way of valid expression. YOU may not like Top 40 music, but that doesn't mean it isn't great. Madonna pisses all over Uggie's McSnoozefest or whoever they are.
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  2. #402
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    You can think that, but you have to agree it takes a lot of talent to play, more so than most genres.
    Perhaps jazz requires a different kind of talent, but I definitely disagree that it takes more talent to play jazz than most genres. And moreover I don't agree that all jazz takes that talent.

    I actually don't think ALL jazz sucks, either.
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  3. #403
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Being good at your instrument doesn't make you a great musician. Not in any way shape or form. Look, I enjoy jazz. I downloaded an Alice Coltrane album yesterday, for Christ's sake. But intricate, technically sound music is only one way of valid expression. YOU may not like Top 40 music, but that doesn't mean it isn't great. Madonna pisses all over Uggie's McSnoozefest or whoever they are.
    Being a good musician takes both talent in composing and performing. Most of the people on the Top 40 can't even play an instrument, someone else makes the music and they sing or rap. It's all about image on the Top 40, let someone actually make the music.

    There are great pop music producers out there, but they don't get the credit, the pretty face attached to their music does.

    There is good pop music, even though I don't respect the genre, but 90% of these pop artists are not artists. Madonna is on a musical level so much lower than people like Clapton, Hendrix, the Allman brothers, even Michael Jackson.

  4. #404
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Why do you keep talking about Top 40? That's not all "pop" is. Belle & Sebastian, Death Cab For Cutie, The Decemberists, and so on and so on are all poppy bands that aren't Top 40.
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  5. #405
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Perhaps jazz requires a different kind of talent, but I definitely disagree that it takes more talent to play jazz than most genres. And moreover I don't agree that all jazz takes that talent.

    I actually don't think ALL jazz sucks, either.
    I play drums and no style of drumming is harder to play than jazz. The complexity, speed, time signatures, rhythm...in jazz takes extreme talent to perform. The more complex and technical the music is, the harder it is to perform.

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    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    I play drums and no style of drumming is harder to play than jazz. The complexity, speed, time signatures, rhythm...in jazz takes extreme talent to perform. The more complex and technical the music is, the harder it is to perform.
    Oh, okay. You play drums. I guess that makes your opinion sacrosanct.
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  7. #407
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Why do you keep talking about Top 40? That's not all "pop" is. Belle & Sebastian, Death Cab For Cutie, The Decemberists, and so on and so on are all poppy bands that aren't Top 40.
    Those are all indie rock/indie pop groups. A lot different than what pop music is generally considered.

  8. #408
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Oh, okay. You play drums. I guess that makes your opinion sacrosanct.
    As far as drumming is concerned it does, more so than someone who doesn't play.

  9. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Being a good musician takes both talent in composing and performing. Most of the people on the Top 40 can't even play an instrument, someone else makes the music and they sing or rap. It's all about image on the Top 40, let someone actually make the music.
    I disagree. Elvis Presley never recorded a song he wrote, and he was a middling guitarist. That doesn't make him not The King. He was one of the greats. Frank Sinatra didn't play his music, either. How about Rod Stewart? Come on, man, don't be so rockist. You should have an open mind. And I appreciate producers quite a bit. Nellee Hooper, for instance, or Phil Spector, Joe Meek, Max Martin, George Martin and Geoff Emerick, Shel Talmy, Dr. Dre, The Bomb Squad, and so on. They needed The Ronettes, Snoop Dogg, Public Enemy, et al. to make the music. It's a unified whole, that ends up with the sounds we hear in our ears.

    There are great pop music producers out there, but they don't get the credit, the pretty face attached to their music does.
    Oh, really? See above.

    There is good pop music, even though I don't respect the genre, but 90% of these pop artists are not artists. Madonna is on a musical level so much lower than people like Clapton, Hendrix, the Allman brothers, even Michael Jackson.
    "I don't respect the genre" is all I really needed to hear. You can say that you don't care for something, but that is different than saying it has no merit. Also, for the record, neither Clapton nor the Allman Brothers have done anything worthwhile in over 20 years ("Tears in Heaven" excepted). Madonna can claim a lot more relevance than those two acts. And Prince is a better musician than any of those acts.
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  10. #410
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I disagree. Elvis Presley never recorded a song he wrote, and he was a middling guitarist. That doesn't make him not The King. He was one of the greats. Frank Sinatra didn't play his music, either. How about Rod Stewart? Come on, man, don't be so rockist. You should have an open mind. And I appreciate producers quite a bit. Nellee Hooper, for instance, or Phil Spector, Joe Meek, Max Martin, George Martin and Geoff Emerick, Shel Talmy, Dr. Dre, The Bomb Squad, and so on. They needed The Ronettes, Snoop Dogg, Public Enemy, et al. to make the music. It's a unified whole, that ends up with the sounds we hear in our ears.



    Oh, really? See above.



    "I don't respect the genre" is all I really needed to hear. You can say that you don't care for something, but that is different than saying it has no merit. Also, for the record, neither Clapton nor the Allman Brothers have done anything worthwhile in over 20 years ("Tears in Heaven" excepted). Madonna can claim a lot more relevance than those two acts. And Prince is a better musician than any of those acts.
    I don't respect that so much pop music is designed only to make money. You can understand that right? That's not what music should be about.

    Elvis can be The King, but he wasn't a great artist. As for relevance, I wasn't referring to that, just talent.

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